Dear Ming

I have gone into the "Chronology of Chinese Dynasty" Page and it is correctly stated that Wu Zetian is under her Zhou Dynasty. If you go into the Tang Dynasty (618-907) section, the fourth ruler listed is Wu Zetian with her own dynasty of Zhou in brackets. Some historians would like to include her as a Tang Empress, but in her own rights she disregarded protocol and precedence and got her own son, the Emperor Ruizong, to publicly appeal to her to assume the imperial post. She then proceeded to found her own dynasty of only one ruler, i.e. herself.

Tin-Kay

I have a reference on Empress Wu Zetian in
Chronology of Chinese Dynasty page. The name and dynasty are at variance with your latest posting. Will you verify them?

Dear Stephen

Empress Wu zetian (Wu Zhao) was sent to a Buddhist temple, not a Daoist temple, as a nun following the death of her first husband, the Emperor Taizong. During her reign she allowed the Buddhist church to have precedence over their rivals, the Daoists.

A medicine pedlar called Xue Huaiyi, who became Empress Wu's lover, was appointed as abbot of the Buddhist White Horse Monastery outside Luoyang. Xue assumed much power and was able to persuade the Empress to spend lavishly on Buddhist temples and buildings. Xue was the bane of the Daoists, who were beaten up by his ruffian gangs. Following the downfall of Empress Wu, the Daoists regained their power from the Buddhists in their spiritual-cum-political war.

I typed in Empress Wu Zetian's dynasty as Zhao by mistake. It should be Zhou, a similar word to the Zhou Dynasty which followed the Shang Dynasty. Wu Zetian was also called Wu Zhao.

Tin-Kay

Dear Rima

Rudy has done a good job getting the photos set up at the New Discussion Page at Yahoo.

Wu Zetian was a woman ahead of her times, capable of outwitting any man with brains and charms, but also negatively personified as one capable of killing anyone, even her children, to achieve her ambitions. She was concubine to Emperor Tai Zong (Li Shiming), the second Tang Emperor, who in a power struggle, assassinated his two brothers and forced his father, the first Tang Emperor Gao Zu (Li Yuan) into abdication in AD 626.

Wu Zetian was said to have a secret affair with the crown prince, who later became the Third Tang Emperor, Gao Zong (Li Zhi). When her husband, Emperor Tai Zong died in AD 649, Wu Zetian was sent to the Buddhist convent as a nun in conformity to the custom of the time. Soon after, when Emperor Gao Zong was invested, Wu Zetian was immediately recalled to the palace as his concubine, in spite of objections from his advisers. Hence, Wu Zetian married her own step-son.

Wu Zetian then plotted to depose the Empress. The Empress unwittingly paid a goodwill visit to see her and her newborn son, who was then found to have been smoothered to death when the Empress left. Historians felt that Wu Zetian smothered her own child, and blamed the Empress, who was immediately demoted. Wu Zetian was then installed as the Empress in AD 655. She then had the Empress and another concubine boiled alive in a cauldron of oil.

Wu Zetian then wrested control of the court from her weak husband. She set up a secret service far more threatening than the Gestapo or KGB. She eliminated her own son, Li Xian, when he became Emperor Zhong Zong, and also deposed another son, Emperor Rui Zong (Li Dan), who was smart enough to remain quiet and alive, unlike Li Xian, who was murdered. She then crowned herself as the First Empress of a new dynasty, Zhao. She was reputed to have carried on many scandalous affairs with men, even up to an elderly age. This was despite having no hormone replecement therapy.

On the positive side, despite the intrigues at court, she gave peace to the nation, and elevated the position of women in a very male-dominated society. She elevated men of talent, but when they became too powerful, she eleminated them. She supported agricultural programs to feed the people. She encouraged Buddhism, sometimes to a degree of diminishing the imperial coffers. One of her lovers was an appointed Buddhist abbot with freedom to enter her private chambers. The rise of the Guanyin as a Buddhist goddess, considered an effeminate form of a male Buddhist bodhisatvva called Avalokitesvara, was encouraged, giving hope to many women in seeking solace from their down-trodden status.

As a mistress of perception and scrutiny, she was able to stay at the helm of power despite many plots to return the dynasty to the house of Tang. Finally, at the age of 82 years, she was forced to abdicate by her prime minister in a palace coup, and Li Dan was returned as the Emperor, with Wu Zetian as a powerless Dowager. Li Dan's son was the famous Li Longji, who became the Emperor Xuan Zong, the benefactor of Li Bai, poet emeritus, and the husband of infamous concubine, Yang Guifei, one of the four classical beauties of China.

The study of Wu Zetian is exciting and the later Qing Empress Cixi (of the Boxer rebellion fame) tried to imitate her with disastrous consequences to the Manchu dynasty and setting the Qings onto its terminal stage. It is rare for a woman like Wu Zetian to rise so high and so long, able to excel in Chinese literature and language in an age of male scholars, and able to match the Confucianists at their game, and make momentous decisions, sometimes, so cruel as to be unfeeling and evil, and sometimes so fair as to understand the commoners.

The best book in English on Wu Zetian is "The Empress Wu" by C.P. Fitzgerald. A recent TV serial called Wu Zetian from China is exciting, and I hope it has been given English subtitles.

Tin-Kay

Go to Yahoo Clubs! . Under "Spot Light", click on "China" and enjoy the companion discussion area.

Here is an update on our Yahoo club's latest discssions. We have a very lively exchange of views on Chan ( Zen )禪 . And from there, we side-tracked it to pagoda. What is it and how we get this term ? There are links to websites for you to view some of the more famous pagodas.

Thanks for getting back on 曾 慧 . I don't think they are the same person to start with.

Jiang's calligraphy is stemmed from Yan ZhenQing. The calligraphy of leaders can't be asked for too much, and should not be a sample for learning or teaching in most cases. The fact that they can still do it is already good enough as an encouragement.

So far the best calligrapher is still Mao and no one even has close achievement. Another good one is Hua Guo Feng, who writes in Yan also and had a short political life and a transition after Mao. I don't want to comment on the not so good ones and they should know to hide their shortcomings and refuse to grant any requests.

BTW, for Jason, I don't think he wants his name in Chinese, but the other two. Jason could be translated in a scholarly way as 擇善. Funny, I just used this in my earlier post.

Thanks for your advice on transcribing Western names into Chinese. I'll pass it over to Jason. Would you please still give your comment on the fact that there are 'small' words in Chinese personal names (e.g. 王羲之)?

Alfred

http://www.fa-kuan.muc.de
Traces of Butterflies' Dreams - 蝶夢痕
My Poetry

My definition of integration of Daoism, Confucianism and Buddhism is not to equate them, but to pick the essence of the best and use it under the appropriate circumstances. 擇其善者而從之。因時制宜。 But don't call it opportunism. All these philosophies also have their historical limitation. While we appreciate much of their thoughts, we also need to evaluate them against the contemporary society for proper usage.

Transcribing English given names into Chinese does have certain rules. Well known names such as Mary, John, Stephen have well established translations; and it would not be advisible to make up a new translation just because one feels like it. (Remember: That person has to live with it.)

Secondarily, if there are famous persons (movie stars, etc) with the same name, again it would be well to consult the movie magazines and Newspaper supplements

Finally, certain class of words are not suitable if one is to make up a name.

鷓希佳 is ok; but I would prefer 2 words over 3 words.
這西加 is not suitable. This does not "look" like a name. 這 is not an acceptable word for constructing names.

The safe approach is to use words with (a) nice meanings, and (b) not in daily usage.
For Jason, how about or Jingshuang. "Respect" "bright".

"Our body is the Bodhi tree,
And our mind a mirror bright;
Carefully we wipe them hour by hour,
And let no dust alight!"

身是菩提樹 shen shih p'u t'i shu
心如明鏡台 hsin juh ming ching t'ai
時時勤拂拭 shih shih ch'in fu shih
勿使惹塵埃 wu shih je ch'en ai

神秀 Shen Hsiu

"Fundalmentally, there is no Bodhi tree,
Nor stand of a mirror bright;
Since all is void from the beginning,
Where can the dust alight?"

菩提本無樹 p'u t'i pen wu shu
明鏡亦非台 ming ching i fei t'ai
本來無一物 pen lai wu i wu
何處惹塵埃 ho ch'u je ch'en ai

慧能 Huei Neng

Back to things more profane: Bob is right - aren't the texts above almost similar to GB? There are only two infact different characters in both texts: 塵 (in GB: 鳥) and 處 (in GB: 揭).
Although not being an admirer of the simplified characters, I admit that I'd prefer the 'dust' character in GB, because it's something to hold on: something 'minute' 小 from the 'soil' 土, hence 'dust'. And, for what reason write something simple/trifle like that with a complicated character like 塵?
Without running through etymological sources I'd imagine: 塵 is something from the 'soil' 土 stirred up by the hoofs of a fugitive 鹿 (deer), hence 'dust'. Isn't this a bit far-fetched, anyway?

Alfred

http://www.fa-kuan.muc.de
Traces of Butterflies' Dreams - 蝶夢痕
My Poetry

If the judgement is from within, then there is no escape of a disciplining self. the significance of the Confucius and Mencius value is based on this self discipline.

While "education" is a major topic of debate among the politicians, it is wrongly focused on the size of class and how much funiding should be allocated to the public schools or whether the schools should be privatized for efficiency. The candidates are talking about family value yet none rally touch on the approach to establish these values to the young minds. The schools remain as a machine turning out jobseekers looking for overnight success and retirement at 40. The empty soul is the biggest threat to the American society.

Hi, I am trying to get special present for someone, and I need your help. I need the Chinese symbols for the words "Brat" and "Jessie" ("Jessica" will be fine). I am getting a silver sculptor to make me a charm. I hope you can help me.

Jason (last name is known)

What about 波雷特 and 鷓希佳 ;-) (or plain: 這西加)?

BTW, Westerners, having their names translated/transcribed into Chinese, very often (usually) would like to get names full of 'deep meaning', whereas Chinese given names 名 to me not seldom seem to be pretty simple and plain, written with everyday's character (e.g. 之 etc. - Ming calls them 'the little words' I think). What is your opinion on this? Also our Western (mostly Christian) names once - in the past - had moreorless 'deep meaning' from their ancient language respective (Germanic, Latin, Greek, Hebrew etc.), yet this, very often, is no longer in mind by those parents giving names to their children, and the children bearing them. They just would take their cue how the name sounds - and usually follow the fashion (in Eastern Germany e.g. a whole generation used to get foreign first names like Kevin, Marco, Rene, Boris, Sascha etc.).

Julian, back to your question for Zeng Hui 曾慧: as I was told recently, this artist is *not* identical with the one mentioned by you from Hongkong. Although missing her performance at our Culture Night in Munich, she was said having participated some time later as a guest there.

Alfred

http://www.fa-kuan.muc.de
Traces of Butterflies' Dreams - 蝶夢痕
My Poetry

It would seem to my simple mind that Chan is almost similar to Daoism, for we are but a ※vast§ emptiness, not even akin to a drop of water in the ocean nor a grain of sand in the desert. In the pursuit of enlightenment, which is itself self-defeating as one should not wilfully seek it, the real truth is elusive, and life is an illusion. I am reminded of Zuangzi, who questioned whether he was a man dreaming of a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming of a man.

Dear Stephen, Siu-Leung, Bob, and friends

I cannot post into CTB-Yahoo, so I am posting here instead. I read that Hui Neng was illiterate at the time he was appointed by the Fifth Patriarch to be his successor. There is much agreement that the popularity of the Chan (Zen) Buddhism is through the teachings of Hiu Neng, though the First Patriarch, Boddhidrama, an Indian, set the ball rolling with his Daoist-like paradoxical ※abstractism§.

Chan is derived from the Sanskrit word "dyana" meaning meditation. The origin of the Chan philosophy is believed to be from a Sakyamuni's (Guatama Buddha's) disciple who smiled knowingly when Sakyamuni held up a flower in his hand. As such, Chan emphasises the transmission of thoughts from mind to mind than by the written means. I wonder whether this was telepathic communication..

I was interested in Hui Neng after reading John Willis' Mountain of Fame, pub. Princeton Paperbacks ISB0-691-02674-2. There is another interesting book which is bilingual (Chinese-English) published by the Hunan Publishing House called "The Sutra of Hui Neng" ISBN 7-5438-1155-3. It narrates that Hui Neng was a novice when the Fifth Patriarch decided to appoint a successor by open contest. The instructor, Shen Xiu, wrote on the corridor wall a stanza to show his thoughts:

"Our body is the Bodhi tree,

And our mind a mirror bright;

Carefully we wipe them hour by hour,

And let no dust alight!"

旯岆ぬ枑攷ㄛ 陑�褌鷑腓見� 奀奀с痳岋ㄛ 昦妏�Ё劓ㄐ� 朸凅

The Fifth Patriach unfortunately deemed his thoughts, though praiseworthy, was as not up to the Patriarch's level. Hui Neng, passing by, wanted to add his stanza, but being illiterate, had to get a bystander to write his words:

"Fundalmentally, there is no Bodhi tree,

Nor stand of a mirror bright;

Since all is void from the beginning,

Where can the dust alight?"

ぬ枑掛拸攷ㄛ 隴噩砫準怢ㄛ 掛懂拸珨昜ㄛ 睡揭�Ё劓ㄐ� 雌夔

When the Fifth Patriarch saw this, he quickly rubbed off the stanza to prevent any jealousy. He then visited Hui Neng at work pounding the grain in the mortar, and the Fifth Patriarch pounded Hui Neng's mortar three times. Hui Neng, despite his humble beginning, was smart enough to deduce that the three strokes indicate the third watch at night for him to visit the Fifth Patriarch. He saw the Fifth Patriarch at the appointed time, and was trained to be the Sixth Patriarch.

It would seem to my simple mind that Chan is almost similar to a drop of water in the ocean nor a grain of sand in the desert. In the pursuit of enlightenment, which is itself self-defeating as one should not wilfully seek it, the real truth is elusive, and life is an illusion. I am reminded of Zuangzi, who questioned whether he was a man dreaming of a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming of a man.

I think Chan is good for a respite from this turbulent world, but it is for some people all the time, though not for all people all the time. I would still like the reality of the morning dew drop on a leaf, the rainbow in the sky, and the soft sublime shadows under the moonlight. As in all religions, most people will become recluses following a disillusionment with life, whilst for us this may be an exercise in metaphysical pursuit.

I trust Bob, with his deep interest in Chan can advise me on the finer points. According to the Hunan publication, even the Sutra of Hui Neng has five versions.

Tin-Kay

Bob, our friend of the philosophical touch,

I tried posting at CTB-Yahoo but am unable to get into the site. So I am posting this message here. I noted your Grecian tradition of logic and dialogue, now entwined with the empirical outlook of the Chinese. Although I am of Chinese origin, I started from the same Western angle as you. I was brought up under the old British colonial educational system of training us (in Singapore and Malaysia) to be secondary Englishmen, imbibing Western cultures and values from ancient Greece (Socrates and hemlock, Demosthenes and the pebble) to the English romantics of Wordsworth, Byron and Keats.

Now entering middle age, I am drifting back to my ancestral roots and discovering many pleasant surprises which Ming et al have been enjoying. I have come to value Chinese philosophies and poetry, though my primary interest for the past few years has been Chinese history.

When you were discussing Confucian values (ethics) with the enlightened members of the CTB panel, I was tempted to add in a comment that morality has been on a roller coaster ride through the ages and in many nations. The last king of Shang and the Ming imperial princes were truly licentious, but the later Qing dynasty set a more rigid code of conduct. Qianlong himself wrote a treatise on the proper conduct for an incoming Qing emperors.

In the West, the earlier Popes, especially the Borgias, were very poor examples of good morale behaviour. Their decadence will shock any reader of the new book, "Sex Lives of the Pope". The European royal houses were no better, except they were more discrete. For the commoners of Europe, Casanova of Venice and Tom Jones and Fanny Hill of England, will make present day moral standard on the upswing. Today, the Paparazzi have made sure that no politician or dignitary can continue the debauchery of Lord Byron or Lord Nelson.

Confucian values are not limited to the Chinese for they are shared by many Asian and Middle Eastern cultures, though not as codified as the Chinese. In addition, Confucian values have many aspects, from conduct of government to conduct to family members, teachers, friends and elders. Even in economics, it has been claimed to be responsible for the Asian Tigers, and derided by ignorant writers as the cause for the Asian economic downturn.

In the West, many parents of Chinese or Asian origin are concerned about the permissiveness of the Western society, with its libertine sub-culture, vandalism and tolerance for delinquent and anti-social behaviour. I, myself, find it disgusting that art has been perverted by the new-age Bohemians to a degree that photography of the female genitalia is considered art. So is blood, feces and urine splashed with religious figures elevated to gallery level. Yet, on the whole, human society is more considerate and fairer now than before.

I have noted Siu-Leung's comment that the best life-style is a combination of the materialism of the West and the philosophy of the East. May I add that this outcome be qualified by the best of both the materialism and the philosophies of the West and East. There is so much of abstract thoughts and food, art and sensual appreciation to share around.

However, I am always distrustful of politicians, as we have seen in Kosovo, East Timor, Taiwan and Chechnya. I have written an article at www.amsa.com.au at Online Newsletter (The Wall Has Two Sides) about the Kosovo issue. Mr. Clinton should understand the Greek feeling for the Serbs before embarking on his trip to Greece, and facing so many demonstrators.

Tin-Kay

The story about "Mark the Spot where the Sword Fell Into Water" came from the book "Lu's Chronicles", which records many discussions about proper statescrafts and behaviours of the Kings.

The story tries to expose the danger of incorrect logic reasoning, that are applied to correct facts to reach incorrect conclusions.

It is easy to show many examples of this sort: (a) Your grandparents were from Greece, therefore you are not American.
(b) It snowed this day last year, therefore it will snow today.
(c) The Stock Market did this and that, therefore ....
I would like to hear about any parallel citations in the Western literature also.

There is a very scientific explanation to day for the giving the postpartum mother a recipe of "ginger, egg, pork feet and vinegar". Ginger stimulates the stomach lining for increase of apetite and better absorption. Egg is a protein nutrient. Vinegar dissolves the calcium in pork feet to remedy the loss of calcium of the new mother. Pork feet also supplies a lot of cartilage. It was a tradition for ages. Chinese herbal medicine is a well tested empirical experiment of natural therapy. Some times it is disguised as a myth/superstition in order to have the practice passed down strictly followed and unquestioned.

There is also a custom of not letting the new mother to get out of her room for one month and minimize visitors to avoid infection of the mother and the baby during this critical period of recovery.

I understand you are doing a research paper on the subject. In fact, we would like you to provide more information for us after you completed the paper. You have visited my website on Hakka. There is quite a bit of info. The rest should be filled in your own original research.

That was quite a radical post down there, I liked it!

The main idea that it's NOT the spititual, moral, or literary impetus that produces the subsequent culture, but the materialistic culture that produces spiritual people to set it right again, is an unorthodox, but seemingly true "hypothesis".

This really is Daoism in action: everthing is moving towards it's opposite. The "sinning" culture of the Jews produces a Jesus. The male chauvinist/warlord/Confucianist mentality of the Chinese produces a Lao Zi. The Hindu 33,000-god religion produces a Gautam Buddha who message is that you yourself are the Ultimate. The elitist/arrogant Greek society produces a Socrates.

It's their writings, though, that are what is passed down to posterity, because it gives a "golden glow" to the culture, but most people are usually unaffected.

It's a bigger refrigerator, advanced degrees, wider military influence, and more money in the bank account for most of humanity.

A "sai wang shi ma" 塞 翁 失 馬 situation, as it always has been, and always will be, probably.

http://users.aol.com/shibushi/poems/poetry.html

The author made a passing reference to Bai Juyi's poem "Hua Fei Hua", which is my excuse for connecting it to the currest discussions.

Crane is a favorite subject of painters. In many cases, it is shown in stillness.

I am an admirer of the great Japanese painter Ito Jakuchu (若 沖 in Chinese Big5 code) born Kyoto 1716, who painted some really wonderful cranes as well as phoenix (ho-o) and other birds. His Chinese calligraphy is also very very good.

Dear all,
Bob raised the question on his forum whether or not, or to what extent, the three religions (philosopies) 三教 affected on China etc. (these are my own words). This is indeed a very interesting question, yet - at least with regard to Taoism (and maybe Buddhism too, yet this was 'invented' in far away India) the wrong approach.

I'd ask first, why Taoism was 'invented' in China, and answer that this country was a challenge for men like Laotse 老子 to propagate this new philosophy so strange and deeply different from the Chinese people's very thinking and behaviour. In the minds of Laotse and others must have been a great impetus to telling people the principles of Wu-wei 無為 etc. in order to change the views and attitudes of the Chinese.
And did this philosophy yield any effect on the people as a whole? I do not think so and would say: (Different from Confucianism 孔子主義) not at all! I do not want in the least evaluate or even depreciate Chinese attitude, behavior etc., though, but their special faults/qualities are *not* those highly estimated in the teachings of 老子. Throughout history up to our times, the Chinese striving and aspiration for worldly goals, wealth, reputation, education etc. etc. is well-known all around the world, there's no trace of transcendental values left in practice. (E.g. just read James. A. Michener's story of 'Hawaii' and the Hakka families ascending there, and fighting against horrible circumstances ... in the eyes of other people, at the same time giving a somewhat 'spotted' picture-mix of pleasant and disagreeable traits). Indeed, already in antiquity the Chinese society was 'spurred' by the system (administration, Confucianism, families, neighbourhoods etc. - all being seized by the same idea) to climb up the worldly scales mentioned above.

There was the same reason for Jesus Christ to speak to the people in ancient Israel in his 'Sermon on the Mount' of the 'birds in the skies' and 'the flowers in the fields' etc. to be confident in the Lord who will care for them to feed. Because there was a terrible need for thoughts like this! And did those words have any effect to the Jews, the Christians up to our days? Would Jesus (or Laotse!) ever had spoken like that to the native Americans, the Latinos, the Africans etc. - or e.g. the Catholics in Ireland? But there would have been urgent need e.g. for many generations of eager Protestants to really re-listen to words of that kind and have some reflection on this. Through them, Northern America was deeply influenced (here, not to speak of all the natives with their old and true comprehension of human values in an all-embracing sense) and, up to our times, the entire world in a pretty concrete sense (not only with regard to McDonald, but the globe itself).
I'd really had wished the spirit of 無為 could have effected more our lives, in order to *let* the world go on spinning round as it did, before mankind and its hybris had put its foot on the stage (last curtain?).

Alfred

http://www.fa-kuan.muc.de
Traces of Butterflies' Dreams - 蝶夢痕
My Poetry

Alfred, I agree with your interpretation of the philosophy of the poem. Bai Ju Yi is a Daoist poet. His poems are always conveying some Daoist philosophy and seldom just for the beauty of assembled words. The word "Yi" could mean "convenient" or "fit, suitable". In this case, it means more of the latter.

Here are two more poems about "Crane"

　　　　感鶴　白居易
鶴有不群者，飛飛在野田。飢不啄腐鼠，渴不飲盜泉。
貞姿自耿介，雜鳥何翩翾。同遊不同志，如此十餘年。
一興嗜慾念，遂為矰繳牽。委質小池內，爭食群雞前。
不惟懷稻粱，兼亦競腥羶。不惟戀主人，兼亦狎烏鳶。
物心不可知，天性有時遷。一飽尚如此，況乘大夫軒。
全唐詩 [頁]卷,冊....[4661]424,13

　　　　代鶴　白居易
我本海上鶴，偶逢江南客。感君一顧恩，同來洛陽陌。
洛陽寡族類，皎皎唯兩翼。貌是天與高，色非日浴白。
主人誠可戀，其奈軒庭窄。飲啄雜雞群，年深損標格。
故鄉渺何處，雲水重重隔。誰念深籠中，七換摩天翮。
全唐詩 [頁]卷,冊....[5110]452,14

Bai Ju Yi raised a couple of cranes as pets, and gave one to his best friend and prime minister Pei Du 裴度 (same surname as our dear friend Ming). He wrote a quite a few poems through his observation of the behavior of the cranes and th deep friendship he had with Pei Du.

鶴

人各有所好
物固無常宜
誰謂爾能舞
不如閒立時

Dear all, a small but nevertheless interesting and profound piece of poetry! Giving me inspiration for further notes:

• Dear Siu-Leung, nice translation you did (with all the rhyming, not even to be achieved in Hoklo - what now, Stephen?!! ;(((( - I'll have a look how it rhymes in Middle Chinese);
• the poem's author is Pai Chu:-i (Bai Juyi), I think - not Tu Fu (Du Fu);
• I want to point your attention the two first lines with their parallelism: 人、物，各、固，有、無 and 好(hao4)、宜; this would be hard to convey into a translation;
• my 'raw translation' would be more adequate with the last line: ...* while* you're standing still.
• What could be the meaning behind? I'd guess, it is Taoist philosophy: 舞 (dancing, appealing, moving around etc.) is set in contrast to 閒立 (standing in leisure - not trying to appeal etc., but just 'being oneself'). Just standing 'idle' and *not moving* could be understood as 無為 wu3 wei4 - not trying to achieve something, convince somebody etc. (the crane, not dancing around and flapping his wings e.g. in a mating ritual - but standing in idle dignity without purpose, just being itself, performing - this maybe is the wrong expression! - presenting his very essence!).
  Dear Chieko, wouldn't this exactly be what you are really wanting to tell your friend? That he could be able to 'fly', if he'd refrain from his efforts to appeal to others by his 'artificial' (superficial?) skill and tricks?

Alfred

Everybody likes something in his know,
Nothing ever does everybody please.
Who says you're best dancing like a pro?
None is prettier than you standing at ease.

I want to take a crack on the poem "The Crane" too since so many are interested in it. Here it is:

Everybody likes something in his know
Nothing ever does everybody please
Who says you best dance like a pro?
None prettier than you standing at ease.

This poem by Du Fu, like many of his, is pretty colloquial. So I am making it a bit less literati-like.

The interesting thing is I could actually use the same sound in the rhymes of the Chinese (Cantonese pronunciation, see previous post) in the English translation. Can't help but smiling at the coincidence.

鶴

人各有所好
物固無常宜
誰謂爾能舞
不如閒立時

ho4

jen2 ko4 yu3 so3 hao4
wu4 ku4 wu3 ch'ang2 i2
shuei2 wei4 erh3 neng2 wu3
pu4 juh2 hsien4 li4 shih2

The Crane

Everybody has something he likes (most),
Things seldom are convenient every time.
So, some might say that you're a dancer:
Yet, you're unmatchable, when standing still.

Just a try! I don't think that 舞 wu3 can be translated in the (Japanese) side-meaning 'to fly'. The picture of the crane associates with 'dance' (in Japanese understanding too! - I saw wonderful photographs many years ago, done by a Japanese artist who was in love with cranes - and most of them were 'dancing' their mating ritual. The contrast of 'dance' in this context IMHO here is 'standing in leisure'.

Thanks for this interesting contribution, Chieko! I'd be curious for further interpretations from our friends. Stephen, would you please give the Hokkien 福建 romanization?

Alfred

I cannot commend on the Japanese translation. But I think "dancing" and "flying" are different. Translating it as "dancing" should be better than "flying" if the wuthor's word in fact is "dancing". Cranes do dance and very ceremonially too in courtship. The author is implying the different states of the crane in motion and being stationary, as pointed out by Julian. Stephen may be able to help me with the Japanese of 動 靜. The rest of the translation is very appropriate. Of course, translation does not have to follow word for word. And sometimes, one might twist a bit to fit a rhyme or syllabic rhythm. The three elements for a good translation are: 信 達 雅 truthful to the original, communicative (understandable), and appropriate (exquisite in expression). In this case, I think it can be closer to the original. This is especially true if you are trying to show it to a friend professed in dancing.

Bai Ju Yi loves to use the crane as a topic in his poems. He has written 157 poems with the word crane in it. There is a series of poems on the dialog between the crane and the chicken, the goose, the crow etc. He sometimes use the crane to personify himself and he might have kept a crane as a pet. When he was sick, he called himself a sick crane. Interestingly, Cantonese also frequently use this expression "as sick as a crane".

To add to Stephen's comment on rhyming, in Cantonese, the 1st and 3rd words rhyme, the 2nd and the 4th words rhyme: 好ho(long as in hole)，舞 mo(long as in mole)，宜yi，時si. This fits the most rigid format of Tang Jue poems 絕詩. In Mandarin it is hao, wu, yi, shi.

Your English translation is very close the original as pointed out by Ming. The word that you refer to 舞 means "dance" rather than "flying". Of course, for a crane to dance, it has to fly in the air. May be that is the association of the two translation.

This simple poem is open to different appreciation. Some may take it more literally. Some may have deeper understanding of the poet's inner meaning. The poet seems to suggest that he appreciates more the beauty of tranquiltiy, hence, medication, than the lovely movement of dancing or flying gesture ( hence, the hustle bustle everyday life )of the crane. The poet is very open-minded and he says so in the first two sentences that people have different tastes.

Tsuru (in Japanese, don't know who translated it)

Mono ni wa kimatta yosa wa naku

Hito ni wa sorezore suki-kirai

Anata no mau sugata ga yoi to no koto da ga

Watashi wa suki, anata no jitto shite iru toki

For another, yet I find the original is more logical than Japanese translation, it appears to be more meaningful and full of implication in its simplicity. I guess I have to take the historical context in account - such as Baijuyi's own life, what crane metaphors, are there any important precedents of crane-related poems, and so on - to appreciate it to the full.

I would be more than greatful if anyone could post their comprehention in English. I particularly feel difficulty in translating the last (5th) letter in the 3rd line which literaly means "dancing". We adopt it in Japanese to express things like "birds are flying" or "leaves are twirling in the air"other than simply mean "dancing". So poetic or not, that letter is considered to have 2 meanings - "dancing" and "flying". That's the part of reason why I want to show this poem to a friend who's a dancer. But I wonder if this nuance is able to be translated in English.

I quote Japanese translation below for reference in Chinese + Japanese character and in Roman letter. Sorry if the folmer one doesn't readable.

�u���v

������?����������������

�l�������������D��?��

?������?���p������������������

?���D���A?������������������������

Tsuru (in Japanese, don't know who translated it)

Mono ni wa kimatta yosa wa naku

Hito ni wa sorezore suki-kirai

Anata no mau sugata ga yoi to no koto da ga

Watashi wa suki, anata no jitto shite iru toki

Your inquiry is most welcome.
The Chinese text of this lovely poem by Bai JuYi is in my website. For your convenience, I reproduce it below:

You can see the complete collection of Baijuyi's poetry from the Home Page. Click on "Poetry". From the "Poetry" page, scroll down to "Complete collection of Baijuyi".

Your translation is quite close to the original. Perhaps you can post the Japanese translation (In Japanese) here for us to read also?

I found this very intersting website with more on the invention of printing. You might want to put a link on it.
http://www.gaahk.org.hk/chi/cbulletn/cbhome30.htm
My Britannica says Bi Sheng's types were made of clay. I am still looking for more references on this.

My guess is that this news report is not complete or totally accurate.

Yes, I agree with you. I was a bit puzzled too when I read it. But I was just partially translating the Chinese news. We all learned in school that the inventor of movable types was 畢升 Bi Sheng in Song dynasty (around 1041-48 AD). So why does that news indicate Yuan was the time when movable type was invented? The news did mention the first movable "wood" types as compared to Bi Sheng's clay types. According to Encyclopedia Britannica, the "first" wooden movable types was said to be invented by Wang Chen (1313AD) who was in Yuan dynasty. Perhaps that is the issue.

What is puzzling me more is there is not a word mentioning about printing with movable types in 天工開物 Tian Gong Kai Wu, a Ming dynasty book, which itself was probably printed in this manner.

Dear Ming and friends,
Prof. Guenter Debon began about in the fifties with his translations of Chinese poetry - and was doing his first anthology of Li Bai's poems (he edited in the sixties) while studying/teaching sinology in Munich university. Since years, he's emeritus now and living/working in his home in Baden-Wuerttemberg. I am hoping he's still in good health. (G. Debon owns one volume of my Sung anthology).

As you mention Gutenberg's moveable letters being made of metal: interestingly the German word 'Buch' (book) and 'Buchstabe' (letter, lit. 'beech bar') refers to 'Buche' (beech wood)! This means that the moveable letters original material had been wood. This implicates that in Germany the history of moveable letters was (long?!) before Gutenberg and his time.

Alfred

Previous concensus dates the movable type printing to around 1041, which is about the time of Song Dynasty (960-1127).

I am continually amazed by the knowledge and accomplishments of the early-day Orientalists such as Prof. Debon. How did these pioneers studied,learned, and attained understanding at a time, where there was no one to help?

Dear Ming and friends interested,
here's a second Li Ho poem, I discovered on your site. Knowing Prof. Debon's translation by heart, it also only took a couple of seconds/minutes to find it out from Li Ho's entire work: never knowing the origin, this also could be a proof of how close the translation is to the Chinese text.

昌谷讀書示巴童

蟲響燈光薄
宵寒藥氣濃
君憐垂翅客
辛苦尚相從

李賀

Dem Dienerknaben geschrieben

Insekten toenen, duenn die Lampe glimmt,
Arzneigeruch im naechtlich-kalten Zimmer.
Sein Gast, der fluegellahme, dauert dich -
Folgst ihm in all der bittern Not noch immer.

G. Debon

I guess that the origin (in ancient language!) rhymes - crosswise - in every second line (i.e. also in line 1 and 3 簿、客); the translation only got rhymes in lines 2 and 4, for this reason using the words 'Zimmer' (=room), verbally unexpressed in the origin, and 'noch immer' (=still, always).

Although the translation is really 'lucky' and a piece of good poetry itself, D. Debon - in this case - had not been able to transfer the parallelism (contrast) in lines 1 and 2 簿 po2 (weak, thin, not dense etc.) and 濃 nung2 (dense, thick etc.).

BTW, the expression 垂翅 ch'ui2 ch'i4 also exists in German, and is well-translated by 'fluegellahm' (about: lame-winged), giving the idea of a very sick bird or hen - still worse and the more touching, if the bird is an eagle like Li Ho himself.

The German title is my translation as well as the commas etc., hopefully there won't be too much errors.

Alfred

笢陔扦窅捶坋珨堎拻�桮蝤�(麻悝笥)譴狦堤芩腔昹狦恅痰冪▲憚矨梢祫諳睿掛 哿◎ㄛ郔輪掩絞華悝氪痐隴岆珋湔郔 婌腔躂魂趼唳荂掛妗昜﹝

嬝坋爛測場ㄛ譴狦種擘瓮問侁僱源坢堤芩賸昹狦恅痰冪▲憚矨梢祫諳睿掛哿◎﹝森痰冪冪徹翍靡蕉嘉悝模﹜昹狦悝模 籟湛汜腔褘躇旃噶ㄛ痐隴む岆珋湔岍賜奻郔婌腔躂魂趼唳荂掛妗昜﹝森珨蹦痐湖ぢ賸換苀隅蹦ㄛ蔚躂魂趼楷隴睿妏蚚腔奀潔植 啋測枑善冼測ㄛ枑婌賸埮珨跺嗣岍槨﹝笢弊衄壽蕉嘉蚳模冪徹旮�遹郋縛畏溜玅韍й鄶埴媓警觸奡奐蟢斻傿銫畎ё龢鰓譟蟛俳� 腔漆囀俋嗽掛ㄛ撿衄笭猁腔恅昜睿恅瓬歎硉ㄛ珩岆笢弊褪撮妢﹜荂芃妢睿芞抎妢奻腔笭湮楷珋﹝

Du Fu page. click here.

Other than 19-th century and early 20-th century works, it is hard to find modern translations of Chinese poetry. If you know of any favorite works, please share with us.

The Chinese governments did nothing. The famous universities did nothing. The great foundations lent no support.

I am usually an optimist. Yet I am continually surprised by the speed of progress. There was no publicity, no popular movement, no organized efforts of any kind. Just unsung heros.

Internet was invented to serve a noble purpose. It is now being taken over by commerical interests to make money. I only hope that the well-meaning people will continue the noble work for the next millenium.

Dear Ming, congrats for your new collections of Li Bai and Li He - I'm really happy you got it. When more than ten years ago, I read in "Chinesisch und Computer" that they began a project to digitalize all the great Chinese literary heritage, e.g. 唐詩全集 etc., this seemed to me like kind of a miracle: obviously this is not only achieved in the meantime - but through the developement of the internet (we didn't still think of it at that time) also available to mankind. Great!

Although just knowing the poem in German translation, I found one of my favorite Li Ho poems within just one minute. The translation done by Prof. G. Debon is very close, now I found out that the origin also is written in a plain and beautiful language:

莫種樹

園中莫種樹
種樹四時愁
獨睡南床月
今秋似去秋

Pflanze keinen Baum

Pflanze keinen Baum in deinem Garten,
Baeume machen traurig Jahr fuer Jahr:
Einsam schlafen wir - den Mond im Fenster,
Und auch dieser Herbst gleicht dem, der war.

Alfred

I have the complete collection of Li He's poetry

click here.

The digitization was begun by Professor David Steelman, Taipei long before there was WWWW. At that time, the only way to transmit files was via email. Furthermore, the email system then accept only 7-bit data, and thus could not be used for either GB or BIG5-coded Chinese. We had to go through a uu-code and uu-decode process each and every time.

Li He's poetry was later expanded, proofread and corrected by Zhou Yihua, whose version is used here. The version was originally coded in GB. Yihua has kindly converted it into BIG5 for me. I owe him a great deal of gratitude.

Enjoy.

Dear Tjhin Ce Men

I don't know which is your surname, so please excuse me for being so formal in addressing you.

I think the most appropriate person to help you is Siu-Leung. However, you should first go to his updated article on Hakka Architecture at the Hakka Page at www.asiawind.com. You can also get help from a large group of Hakka readers at the Hakka Forum of the Hakka Page by emailing .

Tin-Kay

Chinese tend to like odd numbers in some way and even number in others. You will find the 7-house arrangement probably called 7-star house or something like that as 7-star implies belssings from heaven 七星拱照. 9 is another number favored by the imperial system. The buttons on the door leading to the forbidden city has 9 rows and 9 buttons per row. The 9-dragon wall, the platform for praying ceremony has 3 tiers with 9 steps each, and so on. 5 would be called 5-phoenix.

For marriage ceremonies, things would be in pairs, never in odd numbers though.

I think Rudy, as a devoted astrologist, would have a much better elaboration of this concept and tradition. There is also a book on numerology of different cultures. You might want to read up. Other cultures would favor different numbers. It is also quite storngly related to the inquisition of astronomical knowledge. The Mayans built their pyramids to represent the 365 days in the year with the shadow of the "serpent" (or dragon) coming down from top to bottom on the return of summer.

Dear Siu-Leung, many thanks for pointing to this interesting exhibition in Munich "Staatsbibliothek". I also passed your info over to the CKM 慕尼黑中華文化中心. You should know that Munich State Library, situated on famous Ludwigsstrasse, used to be on my daily walk to the university quite 'some' years ago. I often have been sitting there reading and studying (law - not Chinese!). Later on, I indeed was studying ancient calligraphies of Sung poets there, in order to add them to my anthology, yet the poems I found (Su Tung-p'o etc.) alas, were different to mine ...

The books, manuscripts and pictures of Yao culture somehow remind me of those published in an interesting work by former Munich Prof. Wolfgang Bauer, I own since many years: it's a scholarly examination on so-called 推背圖 T'ui Pei T'u (prophetical texts in political life from the Book of Changes to Mao Tse-tung).

Alfred

Alfred, you must be interested in seeing this as a first person experience. In the Bavarian library (in Munich!), there is a rich collection of manuscripts by the Yao ethnic group.
http://www.bsb.badw-muenchen.de/english/yao_e.htm
The calligraphy is quite primitive, but it shows how the Han mythology influences on other minorities.
The exhibit ends in December. Don't miss it.

Both names are well-known to all. These are not invented by the Westerners.

By "real name", I mean the name he was given at birth, the name by which he is present to the Emperor, the name on the passport (if there were passport then). In my previous note, I was refering to the proper usage. It is more appropriate on formal occasions to refer to him by his "official" name, i.e. Li Bai, rather than by the "secondary" name.

If one is to publish a book of poetry by him, it would be more likely called, "The Complete Poetry of Li Bai.燠 啞 "

    昌谷北園新筍四首



籜落長竿削玉開,  君看母筍是龍材。

更容一夜抽千尺,  別卻池園數寸泥。







    塘上行



藕花涼露濕, 花缺藕根澀。

飛下雌鴛鴦, 塘水聲溘溘。

http://www.jcibrc.org.hk/chinesepoem/

I quoted Li Ho's poem without much thinking. Only after posting that I found it quite offensive to the good "dragons" like you. Hope you are not superstitious. Li Ho's poem was really rebellious. He despises emperors by ridiculing them and calling them by their names. The "dragon" in his poem refers to the emperors only. One phrase in his poem is well quoted : 吾不識青天高， 黃地厚.That says everything about his character.

Dear Stephen, according to my sources, 滯 is not pronounced as ch'ih/chi4 but chih/zhi4 in Mandarin. Interestingly you mention that it's pronounced with a t/d initial in Hoklo/Taiwanese: just guessing and without looking into a dictionary, I'd have told you that its pronunciation should be tai/dai4 (like 帶). How come this shift in pronouncing? (I did not find the spelling in Middle Chinese).
白 (white) in Middle Chinese was somewhat between 'pak' and 'pek' - the initial being media(!) aspirata (the 2nd of "b, b', p, p' "), written somehow as b'ek - sorry, it's impossible to display the vowel in international phonetic alphabet (forming an 'a' turned on top).

Ming, I don't know why you are wondering about the version 太白 - I imagine that this is *not* invented in the Western world!

Dear Siu-Leung, thanks for the poem of Li Ho. Yes, he was really unconventional in his time, of noble descent, yet rather poor and sick. His poetry often is 'dark' and anything else than easy to understand or translate (you perhaps might remember we had a discussion on the name attributed to him with regard to the other two, the 'saint' (Tu Fu) and the 'genius' (Li T'ai-po) and its translation in the Western world - I forgot it in the meantime, something like 神鬼, but the first character is not correct).

滯 is pronounced chih4/zhi4 in Mandarin (the ending -h in Wade-Giles indicates that it had 入聲 formerly, what's the sound in Cantonese, Hoklo etc.?).

Alfred

飛光， 飛光， 勸爾一杯酒。
吾不識青天高， 黃地厚。
唯見月寒日暖，來煎人壽。
食熊則肥，食蛙則瘦。
神君何在？太一安有？
天東有若木， 下置銜燭龍。
吾將斬龍足，嚼龍肉，
使之朝不得回，夜不得伏。
自然老者不死，少者不哭。
何為服黃金，吞白玉？
誰是任公子，雲中騎碧驢？
劉徹茂陵多滯骨，嬴政梓棺費鮑魚。

The poems shows how he hated the imperial system and the rich. How would any emperor allow printing of such poems? Wonder how this one got passed down at all.

BTW, what is the pronunciation of 滯 in Mandarin? I finally had to use Cantonese to input this word. And forunately I know Cantonese.

Ming, thank you for the hint - I'll look after it. Yet, I am sure, you don't have them all, anyway, because - and this is a real pity - about nine tenth of Li's collected works is said having got lost during the civil war in T'ang dynasty (acc. to Li Yang-ping). I am so hopeful with you too, to slowly get all the great ancient Chinese poets works entirely (as possible) onto the net to be available to the whole world interested. You know that I am a great admirer of Li Ho 李賀 who, although dying as a young man, had been very productive in his work. Obviously he was not too appreciated (this is a matter of fact!), hence his work was not even included e.g. in '300 Tang poems' 唐詩三百首 (there's no single one!). Searching the net for many times for him, up to now, I never yielded any result. Ming, do you have a better answer for me? The Li Ho poems I like best, I know only from German translations.

Dear Stephen, getting 'cake' instead of 'eggs' is a lot better than e.g. getting rocks: as long as the cake is still eatable, having a tasty flavour and - especially - giving you the certain idea that there really are many good eggs in it ;)))) Yet, I am the one to first admit that many many often, those cakes are more or less inedible ...
To discuss this, would be a huge and long topic, and I could give you a lot of real bad examples for what was done to 'foreign' poetry (especially Chinese ones) by 'translating' them. With regard to the origin, it's still worse sometimes, if the translator is a good or even famous poet himself (e.g. like Klabund - 'translating' Li Bai into German -, or people like Hans Bethge who did the texts for Mahler's splendid music). The world is filled with translations done by weak poets, you easily can pass over - without harm for the origin. Yet, one cannot ask too much from someone to study German, Hungarian etc. or even Chinese language in order to be able savouring the origin's real, beautiful and moving sound and content. As for me, I often want to share this with others interested, but not capable in the specific media (=language) respective. It's almost like standing in front of a beautiful scenery, together with a blind partner, and wanting to share all the beauty with him - and only being able to give him an idea, however slight, discribing with words what you are *seeing*. That's why I'm also trying to sometimes add a sound sample to my favorite poetry to give at least an idea of how it sounds, and, in translations, be as close as possible to the rhythm and rhyme (this is very important and difficult!), and the contents (which is easier a lot). In my - and others - opinion, grammar is not as far as important as commonly thought of. Remarkable personalities say, that when e.g. translating an ancient Chinese poem into German, the German language to some extent has to be 'sinicized' (often a lot better than vice versa!). This way of translating is quite obvious (and 'natural') when practiced with Japanese 'haiku' poetry. I tried doing it with some Mao poems on my site as well. Translating poetry from one western language into another (Hungarian included), is comparably easy if there's no rhyme but 'only' the metre to be followed, like in ancient Greek or Latin the hexameter etc. - yet, you have to 'get the rhythm', nonetheless! I am just about to put some famous and most beautiful poetry of Rainer Maria Rilke to my site, again experiencing the specific difficulties translating a poet that really knows to 'handle' his language, with a poem's each single word having been 'polished' and composed to the whole, with lots of alliterations etc. ...
Dear Stephen, let me set a stop here for today - as I think you anyhow got it that this matter for me is a real concern.

Best wishes!

Alfred

BTW, Stephen, Ri Tai-Haku *is* Ri Tai ;)))

The 300 Selected Tang Poetry is but a tiny selection of poems collected by one author.
Li Bai (Li T'ai-po) wrote many poems. I have his Complete Collection here, at:
http://www.chinapage.org/libai/libai-poety.html
Slowly, but surely, we shall have the works of all of the important poets on the Web.

Eileen, I'll try looking into my sources, as I also do not know all the five of them. To give others here a chance for helping you, here's one URL I discoverd on my hard disk with alle the texts in German (with some typos, though) and English.

http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/4133/dlvde.html

From one of them (Li T'ai-Po's) I have another (better, because closer and more concise) translation by Prof. Guenter Debon:

An einem Fruehlingstag
sich aus dem Rausch erhebend

"Das Leben hier gleicht einem grossen Traum" - (人生如夢)
Wozu dann noch die Hast, die Plagen alle?
Und drum bin ich berauscht den ganzen Tag,
Bis ich am Vordachpfosten niederfalle.

Wenn aufgewacht, aeug' ich im Hof umher:
Da steht ein Bluetenbaum, ein Vogel singt.
Wie das? Welch Jahreszeit mag heute sein?
Mit den Pirolen spricht der Fruehlingswind.

Ich bin bewegt und moechte seufzen, klagen
Und bin dem Wein schon wieder zugesellt.
Lauthals sing ich ein Lied, den Mond erwartend.
Nun endet es, und ich vergass die Welt.

BTW, not all T'ang poems (詩、詞) that had come to western world, are included in 唐詩三百首 or other official Chinese anthologies.

Alfred

The word is "East" in abbreviated form.

Why don't you post the poem (or part of it at least). Not everyone has the DuZhe magazine.

Thanks for alerting us to the website. With my cable connection, the download is very fast. I strongly recommend the our visitors to have a look at the exhibits.

For non Yahoo Club members, the following are a number of discussions that recently took place in our club:

1. Do you know that sticky rice was used to build the great wall of China ?

2. Want to know a brief history of 屈 原 and the origin of sticky rice ?

3. Do you know the origin of the surname Lee 李 ?

4. How about a little discussion on the official record of Qing Dynasty and the famous emperor 雍 正 ?

5. More discussion on phonetics and dialects.

6. Some discussion on the Han exhibits.

If you scroll back further, there are lots of other interesting discussion on various aspects of Chinese culture, calligraphy, history, etc.

Yes, I agree with you that the Chiang's probably preserve more of hte national treasures more than stealing them. There were several major disasters on the Palace treasures. One is just before the fall of Qing dynasty, the eunichs stole a lot of the collections and set a fire in the Forbidden City to cover up (this was mentioned in the movie "Last Emperor"). The second time was during Pu Yi's reign as the puppet administration Manzhouguo in Changchun. He stole 1200 items of calligraphy and paintings. The shipping of the national treasures from Beijing to Shanghai (1933) then to Nanjing (1936) when the warehouse was built. In 1937, they were again moved to Sichuan and Yunnan. 1945, they were moved back to Nanjing and then 1949 to Taiwan. Total 600,000 items. According to the administrator of the Palace Museum in Taipei, the loss during the moves was minimal. But for a huge collection like this with hundreds of crates, one or two is a big loss. There is some description in the book "國之重寶" by the Taiwan National Museum.

There is a book 國寶沉浮錄 (上海人民美術出版社 1991)by the recent director of the Beijing Palace Museum 楊仁愷 Yang Ren Kai. He has listed out many of the lost items and he only deals with calligrpahy and paintings. I met him at the Chinese University of Hong Kong when he delivered a lecture of the adventure of the national treasures.

Many thanks to Stephen Hwang for introducing the National Palace Museum in Taipei to our readers.

I remembered it was some twenty odd years ago when I first heard of the National Palace Museum during a group tour to Taiwan. Among the tour members were a Swiss couple very interested in seeing the National Palace Museum for a few days. The Swiss gentleman was, then, the acting Swiss Ambassador to Malaysia, having spent a few years as a Swiss diplomat in Hong Kong. It soon becme evident after some conversations with his wife that the most valuable Chinese art collections were housed in the cool, dry air of the mountain cave of the National Palace Museum.

When I read the history of the journey that the National Art treasures took to end up in Taipei, "poached" by Chang Kai Shek (Jiang Jieshi), it was like a romantic tale of heroes (museum curators)and villians (Japanese troops), with a happy ending for the heroes of course. The curators in charge of the art treasures had loaded them on train carriages to evade the Japanese, and travelled over a large area of China, escaping the Japanese troops out to capture them. Sometimes, the train carriages were only days away from capture, but finally they made it to Nanjing, and then Taipei.

Although Chang Kai Shek "poached" the art treasures for the Kuamingtang, this is one of the few pardonable (and even glorious) moments of his corrupt regime. He had unwittingly saved Chins's most precious treasures from the hands of the destructive Maoist Red Guards.

I started to have an interest in my own Chinese culture after being embarrassed by this Swiss couple, who later became very good friends. It is a paradox that many Chinese are not even aware of their own culture when so many non-Chinese are already experts. I need not mention Alfred Tueting, who constantly put me to shame!

Tin_Kay

十一月戊子，上不豫，還駐暢春園。以貝子胤祹、輔國公吳爾占為滿洲都統。 庚寅，命皇四子胤禛恭代祀天。甲午，上大漸，日加戌，上崩，年六十九。 即夕移入大內發喪。雍正元年二月，恭上尊諡。九月丁丑，葬景陵。

六十一年十一月，聖祖在暢春園不豫，命代祀圜丘。甲午，聖祖大漸， 召於齋宮，宣詔嗣位。聖祖崩。辛丑，上即位，以明年為雍正元年。 命貝勒胤�獺B皇十三弟胤祥、大學士馬齊、尚書隆科多總理事務。 召撫遠大將軍胤�禸茖吽C命兵部尚書白潢協理大學士。以楊宗仁為湖廣總督， 年希堯署廣東巡撫。

Unfortnately, the fonts for some key words don't even show in the original electronic version.

Ming, just have a look into 'page information' there and you'll get all the URLs. Also the source code looks quite 'interesting'.

Alfred

http://www.fa-kuan.muc.de
Traces of Butterflies' Dreams - 蝶夢痕
My Poetry