Readers' Discussions, Comments & Inquiries


Archived pages


SUBJECT:

COMMENT:
Dear SL Lee: Thank you for your input. The system is actually chinese. I am a student and teacher(Sifu) of the techniques of the art. My Sifu, an American who spent a great deal of his life in the Orient, was the only american that was allowed to learn this art at the time (late 50's early 60's). He has great knowledge of the techniques and the 'martial' side of the art, but a lot of the history was not obtained as it came through another student who interpreted. We know some of the history, but I'm trying to complete the circle. Again thank you for your time and consideration. Sato
FROM:Sato
- Thursday, December 30, 1999 at 08:45:45 (PS
SUBJECT:
SILK STREACHING DEVICE
COMMENT:
I AM INTERESTED IN FINDING INFORMATION/PLANS ON A CHINESE DEVICE USED IN PREPARAION OF SILK FOR PAINTING. I HAVE MATERIALS AND AM DESPARATE IN LEARNING MORE ABOUT THIS ANCIENT ART FORM.
FROM:mac <dmcbryde@alo.com>
Charleston, SC USA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 14:44:37 (PS
SUBJECT:
Chinese fonts - GB and Big5
COMMENT:
Dear XinChang,

Welcome to this forum. The reason for using Big5 is we need some of the words for discussing classical Chinese literature and often those words are not available in the GB format, or if they are available, they would not convey the meaning. I am using the most popular software developed in China, by Richwin. A problem of the simplified fonts is that words sometimes are substituted with a simpler word of similar sound. But it loses the meaning. I am a supporter for using simplified characters and have been learning and using them since 1950s when they first became available. I believe it can be improved. Now, often we have to use them interchangeably.

Siu-Leung Lee
FROM:http://www.asiawind.com <sllee@asiawind.com>
- Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 14:26:52 (PS


SUBJECT:
Simplified Chinese font
COMMENT:
Dear Xingchang:

Thank you for writing to me.

I have devoted a great deal of my time in the past 5 years on this website. The task is much larger than one person can possibly accomplish. My hope is that other people, more able than I, will produce many more websites on various aspects. I also hope that you and others will contribute to this website as well.

Regarding the question of traditional vs simplified fonts, let me give you a bit of the background ,rationale, and difficulties.

A major part of my work is devoted to the classics, with almost nothing of the 20-century. I wanted to provide primary source reference materials, with as much reliability as possible. Since the original source documents are written in traditional font, it is natural and logical to use traditional font here. It has nothing to do with the preferences of Mainland or Taiwan at all.

When I started 5 years ago, few viewers had Chinese browsers. I found it necessary to convert the Chinese text to graphic (GIF or JPG) fonts. It takes a lot of time, disk space and long download time as well. But there was no choice.

Recently, as more people avail themselves with Chinese browser, or English browser with Chinese fonts added, it has become possible to have pages coded in actual Chinese text (either BIG5 or GB). These are much faster to download. Further, there is no need to have two versions, one BIG5 and one GB, because your browser can automatically recognize the text and disply them in the font of your choice. This is remarkable but true.

You will find that one of the two "Table of Contents" is in fact coded in GB.

Hopefully some one will help with the development of more GB materials.

Thanks again for writing to me.

Ming
FROM:Ming L Pei <pei@chinapage.org>
- Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 11:32:44 (PS


SUBJECT:
Simplified Chinese font
COMMENT:
Dear Sir/Madam:
I am a post-doc in Harvard Medical School, I came from mainland China. I love this website, everything here is so compelling. It gives me a great place to relax, enjoy and recharge.
One thing I want to suggest is that it's better to have a version in simplified Chinese font also. Maybe people in Taiwan have differant opinions regarding simplified Chinese font, but the current status is that nearly all young kids in Maidland can only read simplified Chinese font. I came up this idea just because I can't expain the excellent works in your website to my son.
Thank you for your wonderful works with our great Chinese culture.
Best wishs,
Xingchang Wei MD
Department of Radiology
Brigham and Women's Hospital
Harvard Medical School
Boston, MA 02115
Tel: (617)278-0013

FROM:Xingchang Wei MD <xcwei@bwh.harvard.edu>
- Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 11:04:14 (PS
SUBJECT:
Sho Shun Ru - martial art
COMMENT:
Dear Sato san,

Perhaps you can provide the kanji. That might help. The pronunciation in Japanese is quite different. Sometimes it is hard to guess. You might also give more information on how you heard about it and what your interest is on this martial art.

SL Lee
FROM:http://www.asiawind.com <sllee@asiawind.com>
- Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 10:19:28 (PS


SUBJECT:
Martial arts
COMMENT:
Dear Ming, Thank you for your time and consideration. Sincerely, Sato
FROM:Sato
- Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 09:45:07 (PS
SUBJECT:
Martial arts
COMMENT:
Dear Sato:

I do not know anything about the particular Martial Arts you asked about.

Ming
FROM:Ming L Pei <pei@chinapage.org>
- Tuesday, December 28, 1999 at 19:47:45 (PS


SUBJECT:
More picture please
COMMENT:
Dear Alice:

Thank you for your comments. I do not have pages dealing with Chinese dress of the 16-17th century, and have no plans to add them at the present.

You may search past issues of Art Magazines such as Asian Arts, which should be available at good university libraries. I remember seeing articles not too long ago.

Ming
FROM:Ming L Pei <pei@chinapage.org>
- Tuesday, December 28, 1999 at 19:44:23 (PS


SUBJECT:
ancient sculpture
COMMENT:
Dear Bartek:

You gave a very vague description of your sculpture. It is impossible to know what you have.

As a mininium, you must take a good photo and upload it with as much desciptions about it as you can.

Ming
FROM:Ming L Pei <pei@chinapage.org>
- Tuesday, December 28, 1999 at 19:39:48 (PS


SUBJECT:

Mahler - "Lied von der Erde"
(song of the earth)


COMMENT:

Dear Siu-Leung, the two poems in modern Chinese IMHO seem to be the following below. Out of the cycle's six poems,the 2nd one is "The lonesome in the fall", the 3rd one is "On young people" - the 1st one's title is Li T'ai-po "Drinking Song on World's Misery", the 4th is also Li Bai: "On Beauty", the 5th poem Li's famous "Drunken in Springtime", with its first line quoting Chuang-tzu, the 6th one ("Farewell") is a mix after Meng Hao-jan ("World drunken of life") and Wang Wei ("Hsia4 Ma3") -
I must admit that I like the German translations below, esp. nr. 3; nr.5 was also beautifully transferred by Prof. G. Debon.

2. Der Einsame im Herbst after Chang-Tsi (c.765 - c.830) - for contralto / baritone

Herbstnebel wallen blaeulich ueberm See;
Vom Reif bezogen stehen alle Graeser;
Man meint, ein Kuenstler habe Staub vom Jade
ueber die feinen Blueten ausgestreut.

Der suesse Duft der Blumen is verflogen;
Ein kalter Wind beugt ihre Stengel nieder.
Bald werden die verwelkten, gold'nen Blaetter
Der Lotosblueten auf dem Wasser zieh'n.

Mein Herz ist muede. Meine kleine Lampe
Erlosch mit Knistern, es gemahnt mich an den Schlaf.
Ich komm' zu dir, traute Ruhestaette!
Ja, gib mir Ruh', ich hab Erquickung not!

Ich weine viel in meinen Einsamkeiten.
Der Herbst in meinem Herzen waehrt zu lange.
Sonne der Liebe, willst du nie mehr scheinen,
Um meine bittern Traenen mild aufzutrocknen?

3. Von der Jugend after Li-Tai-Po (701-762) - for tenor

Mitten in dem kleinen Teiche
Steht ein Pavillon aus gruenem
Und aus weissem Porzellan.

Wie der Ruecken eines Tigers
Woelbt die Bruecke sich aus
Jade Zu dem Pavillon hinueber.

In dem Haeuschen sitzen Freunde,
Schoen gekleidet, trinken, plaudern,
Manche schreiben Verse nieder.

Ihre seidnen Aermel gleiten
Rueckwaerts, ihre seidnen Muetzen
Hocken lustig tief im Nacken.

Auf des kleinen Teiches stiller
Wasserflaeche zeigt sich alles
Wunderlich im Spiegelbilde.

Alles auf dem Kopfe stehend
In dem Pavillon aus gruenem
Und aus weissem Porzellan;

Wie ein Halbmond steht die Bruecke,
Umgekehrt der Bogen. Freunde,
Schoen gekleidet, trinken, plaudern.

You may find English translations at www.recmusic.org. BTW, some time ago, we had already discussed this topic on the forum - try the "search" function of CTB.

(Just saw that Bethge's version of Wang's "Farewell" is pretty huge, Debon is far better:

Abschied

Ich stieg vom Pferd und reichte dir den Wein
Und fragte dich, wohin du gingest.

Du sagtest: Hatte in der Welt kein Glueck,
Will heim, will ausruhn in des Suedbergs Gruenden.

Dann also geh! Da fragt dich keiner mehr,
wo weiss die Wolken ziehn und nimmer schwinden.

G. Debon)

Alfred

http://www.fa-kuan.muc.de
Traces of Butterflies' Dreams - "Tieh Meng Hen"
My Poetry


FROM:A.W. Tueting <Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de>
- Monday, December 27, 1999 at 10:41:04 (PS
SUBJECT:
Su Shi's poem
COMMENT:
Dear Siu-Leung, Alfred and Chi Cheung,

In case you cannot read GB code, I converted Siu-Leung's input to GIF.

Go to Su Shi's Main Page , click on "Selected poems in gif", and the poem is the last one on this page.

Ming
FROM:Ming L Pei <pei@chinapage.org>
- Monday, December 27, 1999 at 09:46:52 (PS


SUBJECT:
German symphony on Tang poem
COMMENT:
Dear Alfred,

You might have some information on the German symphony "Song of the Earth" based on two Tang poems. Can you share with us? They were translated into modern Chinese as follows (in GB codes, I hope you can still read them using IE5):

À¶É«µÄÇïÎíÃÖÂþÔÚºþÃæÉÏ£¬ Çà²ÝÒ¶×Ó¸²¸Ç×ÅÑÏ˪£¬ ºÃËÆ»­¼Ò°Ñôä´äËÆµÄÂÌ·Û£¬ ÇáÈöÔÚ½¿Ä۵ύ¶äÖ®ÉÏ¡£ ÏÊ»¨ÒÑʧȥËüµÄ·Ò·¼£¬ º®·ç½«»¨¶ä´µÂäÔÚµØÉÏ£¬ ã°Ð»³É½ðÉ«µÄÁ«»¨£¬ ¼´½«Ë沨µ´Ñú¡£ ...... ÎÒÒÑÀ§¾ë£¬ µÆÒÑϨÃð£¬ÓÕÎÒÈëÃߣ¬ ³¤ÃßÖ®µØ°¡£¬ÎÒÒÑÀ´µ½ÄãÕâÀ ´Í¸øÎÒÆ½¾²°É£¬ÎÒÐèÒªÐÝÏ¢¡£ ÎÒÐÄÖеÄÇïÈÕ¹ýÓÚÂþ³¤£¬ ÎÒÔڹ¼ÅÖÐà¨Æü£¬ Ç×°®µÄÌ«Ñô°¡£¬ÄãΪºÎ²»ÔÙ·ÅÉä¹â⣬ Ç×ÇеذÑÎÒÍ´¿àµÄÀáˮɹ¸É£¿

ÔÚÄÇССˮ³ØµÄÖÐÑ룬 ØùÁ¢×ÅÒ»×ùÂÌÉ«ÁðÁ§µÄСͤ£¬ ÉÏÃæ¸Ç×Ű×É«µÄÎÝÍߣ¬ ºÃÏñÊÇÃÍ»¢µÄ¹­±³Ò»Ñù£¬ ôä´äµÄСÇÅÍäÍ䵨ºá¿çµ½Ð¡Í¤ÉÏ¡£ ÅóÓÑÃÇÔÚͤÖÐÏà¾Û£¬ ´©×Å»ªÀöµÄÒÂÉÀ£¬ Òû¾Æ³©Ð𣬸³Ê«×÷ÀÖ£¬ Ë¿ÐäÍϵأ¬Ã±´øÆ®´¹¡£ ÔÚÆ½¾²µÄºþÃæÉÏ£¬ Ò»Çж¼ÆæÒìµØµ¹Ó³³öÀ´£¬ ÂÌÉ«µÄÁðÁ§Ð¡Í¤£¬ ¸²¸Ç×Ű×É«µÄÎÝÍߣ¬ ÐÂÔÂÐεÄÍäÇÅ£¬ ÓÌÈçµ¹Á¢µÄ¹­¡£ ÅóÓÑÃÇÔÚͤÖÐÏà¾Û£¬ ´©×Å»ªÀöµÄÒÂÉÀ£¬ ËûÃÇÒû¾Æ¡¢³©Ð𣬠¸³Ê«¡¢×÷ÀÖ¡£

If given a bit more information, I might be able to identify them. Siu-Leung Lee
FROM:http://www.asiawind.com <sllee@asiawind.com>
- Monday, December 27, 1999 at 07:08:21 (PS


SUBJECT:
Poem by Su Shi
COMMENT:
Dear Alfred and Chi Cheung,

I think the poem should be the following one (in GB code):
Ñ©À↑»¨È´Êdz٣¬
ºÎÈç¶ÀÕ¼ÉÏ´ºÊ±¡£
Ò²ÖªÔìÎﺬÉîÒ⣬
¹ÊÓëÊ©Öì·¢Ãî×Ë¡£
ϸÓêÑà²Ðǧ¿ÅÀᣬ
ÇẮÊÝËðÒ»·Ö¼¡¡£
²»Ó¦±ãÔÓÑýÌÒÐÓ£¬
Êýµã΢ËáÒÑÖøÖ¦¡£

Siu-Leung Lee

FROM:http://www.asiawind.com <sllee@asiawind.com>
- Monday, December 27, 1999 at 06:59:04 (PS


SUBJECT:
More pictures please
COMMENT:
What a wonderful and very helpful site. I am resurching various forms of fashion for my art degree. I would very much like any information about or pictures of Traditional Chinese dress between the 16th and 17th century as I am having trouble locating it. Thank you very much for the art you already display and any help you can offer thankyou. Alice
FROM:Alice Marsh <queenoftheteddybears@hotmail.com>
Brighton, England - Sunday, December 26, 1999 at 10:11:20 (PS
SUBJECT:
Lost Poem
COMMENT:

Chi Cheung, I just found one poem that could match the one you're looking for, published in 'Song Shi Yi Bai Shou', page 36: Su Shih, "Hai T'ang". Sorry, for technical reasons I cannot display the Chinese character text for the moment so write it in pinyin:

Hai tang

Dong feng niao niao fa(n) chong guang
Xiang wu kong meng yue zhuan lang
Zhi kong ye shen hua shui qu
Gu shao gao zhu zhao hong zhuang

Su Shi

(The notes of 'Song Shi Yi Bai Shuo' say: "hong zhuang" - zhi de shi hai tang hua).

I am aware that the first line cited by you, doesn't go together with the above poem - so maybe I am wrong with it. It can easily be that there exists a similar poem by Su Shih not included in the volume '100 Sung Poems'.

BTW, Stephen and Siu-Leung, how do you like the rhymes in Mandarin!!!

Alfred

http://www.fa-kuan.muc.de
Traces of Butterflies' Dreams - "Tieh Meng Hen"
My Poetry


FROM:A.W. Tueting <Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de>
- Sunday, December 26, 1999 at 06:00:08 (PS
SUBJECT:
Lost Poem
COMMENT:
I could not find a poem from any web site. Could any one please have the information drop me a line. The poem I am looking for is written by Su Shi. A friend of mine has bought a vase with part of the poem printed and he would like to have it translated into English.The poem's title is "Red Plum" and the first phrase goes "Its always late to see Plum Blossom in snow". Please excuse me that I can only type those words in English translation and cause you guessing. Thanks a lot.
FROM:Chi Cheung <chi@tig.com.au>
sydney, NSW Australia - Saturday, December 25, 1999 at 17:11:42 (PS
SUBJECT:
Chinese Writing
COMMENT:
Hi I was just enquiring about the chinese symbol for drugs. If you can tell me could please e-mail me at the address above. Thanks
FROM:Jaylene <jaybai@yahoo.com.au>
Brisbane, qld Australia - Friday, December 24, 1999 at 23:34:58 (PS
SUBJECT:
Bian Que & History of Chinese Medicine
COMMENT:

Dear Siu-Leung

Thanks for giving us the pharmacological components of Ma Fei San Âé·ÐÉ¢ and for pointing out about the work of Bian Que ±âȵ, actual name Qin Yueren ÇØÔ½ÈË, in the philosophical book, the Liezi ÁÐ×Ó. You may be right that anaesthetic might have been used in Bian Que¡¯s time, in which case we can antedate the discovery of anaesthesia by another five hundred years before Hua Tuo ÈAÙ¢. However, for general anaesthesia, it is more widely accepted that it came with the herbal concoction, Ma Fei San, discovered by Hua Tuo. Hua Tuo was noted in Dun Li¡¯s ¡°The Ageless Chinese: A History¡± to have performed open-heart surgery in the third century AD, but Dun Li did not quote his reference. Between Bian Que and Hua Tuo, I would find it more likely that Hua Tuo had attempted a cardiac operation with the help of Ma Fei San, though I doubt that the poor patient would have survived.

With due respect to the Liezi, the heart transplants that Bian Que performed sounded more like a fairy tale, similar to those mythological works of the legendary Medical Trinity of Fu Xi, Shenong and Huangdi. According to the book ¡°History of Chinese Medicine¡± ÖЇøátÊ· by Drs. K.C. Wong Íõ¼ªÃñ and W.Lien-Teh ÎéßBµÂ, pub. 1936, the Liezi related that Bian Que had two male patients, Kong Hu of Lu and Qi Ying of Zhao. One had a strong will and a poor physique, and the other had a weak will and a strong physique. Hence, Bian Que persuaded them to have an exchange of heart. He then gave them herbs which caused them to fall asleep for three days during which time he transplanted the two patients¡¯ hearts in mutual exchange. Believe it or not, both survived with different personalities and their respective families had to be reassured that they were healthier than before.

I noticed you were doubtful about the heart transplant. Any surgeon, even a lay person, would have questioned the success of cardiac transplant without modern day cryo-stabilization of the heart tissues as well as without empty stomach pre-operative preparation. Hence, doubtlessly, I can discount that such major operations, like cardiac and abdominal surgery, could not have been successfully performed by either Bian Que or Hua Tuo. Nevertheless, Bian Que, considered by some to be the Father of Chinese Medicine, certainly mastered sphygmology (art of pulse palpation), good clinical history and examination, and treatment with acupuncture, herbs and moxibustion. My fellow medical colleague and regular contributor, Dr. Stephen Hwang, should be able to comment more.

The Liezi, originally thought to have been composed by Liezi himself in the fifth to fourth century BC, is now known to have been written by someone else at about the third century AD, just before the commentary on it by Zhang Zhan around 370 AD. It is debatable whether there was a Daoist master called Liezi. However, the book is considered the third major Daoist classic after the Laozi and the Zuangzi ׯ×Ó. The stories in the Zuangzi and the Liezi can be supernatural or ¡°transcendental¡±. The Zuangzi mentioned in its first chapter that the master, Liezi, could travel for days riding on the wind. In the Huang Di chapter in Liezi, there is a story of the drunk falling off a cart and not hurt because he was relaxed and did not brace himself as normal people do. How much is figurative and how much is factual again belongs to the realm of mysticism and imagination. I think it is safer to accept the Zuangzi and Liezi as philosophical works than historical documents.

Sima Qian gave a write-up on Bian Que, but apparently he collected all the tales about Bian Que from various ancient works and combined them into a connected story. The two stories of a) medical secrets passed by his dying tutor, Zhang Sanjun, éLÉ£¾ý and b) the ¡°dead¡± Crown Prince of Guo ë½¹ú brought to life, were said to belong to the real Bian Que, i.e. Qin Yueren ÇØÔ½ÈË. The three stories of a) Duke Huan of Qi ýR»¸¹« not listening to Bian Que¡¯s advice until he (the Duke) succumbed to the fatal disease, b) the unconscious Zhao Jianzi's Úwº†×Ó revival after seven days¡¯ of stupor, and c) the murder of Bian Que by his rival, Li Xi, Àîõµ the royal physician to the Qin King, were claimed in the ¡°History of Chinese Medicine¡± as related to another physician of the same name called Bian Que, but not Qin Yueren. How would the authors know which stories fitted the real Bian Que?

Although Bian Que did not leave behind his record of his experiences, the Nan Jing ÄѾ­ or Difficult Classics, (which discussed the 81 passages from the Nei Jing ÄÚ¾­), also mentioned Bian Que. His work on pulses was mentioned in the book ¡°Pulse Classic¡± Ã}½› by Wang Shuhe ÍõÊåºÍ in 280 AD. Hence, it is safe to conclude that there was such a famous person called Bian Que, and he might even have an imposter. Sieving medical facts from fiction was not the fine art of Chinese historians who were more used to political intrigues and philosophy. Hence, Sima Qian was very accurate in many historical events, but his write up of Bian Que, reviving so many people in prolonged coma, cannot be accepted as facts but rather as a honest collection of stories about a highly respected physician. Sima Qian also wrote on another physician, Chunyu Yi, of the Western Han period of Emperor Wen Di.

There are so many notable physicians in the long history of China. The three most famous were Bian Que (born ? 410BC), Hua Tua (born ? AD145) and Li Shizhen Àî•rÕä (born AD 1518). The other well known ones include: a) Zhang Zongjing éLÖÙ¾° (born ? AD142), who wrote on febrile illnesses and typhoid, b) Sun Simiao ŒO˼åã (born ? AD580), who collected a medical compendium called the ¡°Thousand Golden Prescriptions¡±, inclusive of sea-weed (iodine) and beans (Vitamin B), c) Song Ci ËδÈ, who published the first book in the world on Forensic Medicine in 1247.

During the Ming Dynasty, the Yao Wang È™Íõ Medical Temple in Shaanxi dedicated to Sun Simiao, had a unique way of giving free prescriptions. The medical sripts were carved into stone slabs (steles) and the patient could take rubbings on the steles with ice paper. Of course, there was no guarantee of wrong diagnosis! And another interesting fact is that the Chinese first used small pox vaccination, which was introduced to Turkey and to Dr. Jenner.

Tin-Kay


FROM:Tin-Kay Goh <tinkgoh@ozemail.com.au>
Sydney, NSW Australia - Friday, December 24, 1999 at 08:11:31 (PS
SUBJECT:
Re: Ying and Yang
COMMENT:
Ying and Yang is like the law of contradiction in things, that is, the law of the unity of opposites. In mathematics: + and -. differential and integral. In mechanics: action and reaction. In physics: positive and negative electricity. in chemistry: the combination and dissociation of atoms. On top of these: day and night; wet and dry; right and left etc etc. without contradiction nothing would exist.
FROM:CHUNG Yoon-Ngan <chungyn@joinet.net.au>
Australia - Friday, December 24, 1999 at 08:06:31 (PS
SUBJECT:
Yin-Yang and time
COMMENT:
Dear Siu-Leung,

"One thing it does not cover is the irreversibility of time function. But who knows. Can light and time come back in cycle from infinity?"

indeed, this is a real interesting question: I'd answer: No! The T'ai-Chi symbol is a *rotating* 'picture', i.e,. it first of all stands for 'motion' (change, transition, cycles etc.). Motion etc. is *in* time and symbolizes the *cyclic* structure of time, yet the end of the 'circle'cannot be the beginning of the same cycle, but just the start of a new one - and so on. (And every single segment/place/point of the 'ring' is both, ending and start in one.)
Only this 'motion' quality (beautifully indicated in the circle-shaped symbol) makes 'life' go on - or still better: is creating life, or *is* life itself! It's comparable to a spinning top or water flowing - stop its movement, and it will fall or there won't be a wave any more: cessation of the movement, the standstill of time means/is death! But the symbol of yin-yang or t'ai-chi means life and time! In my opinion, it cannot symbolize 'eternal' movement, because eternity is out of time, maybe the contrary of time - the cessation of all being! 'When' this will occur, the spinning t'ai-chi will tumble and fall to immobility, (then, there will be no 'when' any more).To speak in terms of physics: the electrons will stop to circulate around their kernels, the planets no longer spin around their suns etc. and crash into one big nothing.

Chung Liang Al Huang once depicted a t'ai-chi symbol with a white hole in its centre: maybe this indicating the motionless final big emptiness! Thus, this symbol could even bear and comprehend its very opposite: ... eternal death

Alfred

http://www.fa-kuan.muc.de
Traces of Butterflies' Dreams - "Tieh Meng Hen"
My Poetry


FROM:A.W. Tueting <tiyuting@netscape.net Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de>
- Friday, December 24, 1999 at 05:16:29 (PS
SUBJECT:
Christmas Greetings...
COMMENT:
Dear friends of the forum, I'd like to take this opportunity being able to getting online for wishing you all the best for the Christmas season. May you have pleasant, quiet and peaceful holidays and access (and pass ;-)) the new 'Millenium' in good health!

Alfred

http://www.fa-kuan.muc.de
Traces of Butterflies' Dreams - "Tieh Meng Hen"
My Poetry


FROM:A.W. Tueting <Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de,tiyuting@netscape.net>
- Friday, December 24, 1999 at 03:30:10 (PS
SUBJECT:
Yin Yang Logo - Taiji
COMMENT:
Dear Ming,

According to legends, it was FuxiShi ¥ñ¿ª¤ó who invented the Yin Yang logo. I don't think it matters in any way you look at it as it is circling and dynamic. ¥Í¥Í¤£®§¡A´`Àô¤£¤w¡C

The logo symbolizes unification of contrasting forces ¹ï¥ß²Î¤@. The two are counteracting yet each evolves from, or penetrates into, the other. Tracing the edge, each force/matter grows and eventually diminishes to allow the other to emerge. There is no end and no beginning. Black is in white, and white is in black. There is nothing absolutely pure. Neither exists alone without the other. They are countering each other and balancing each other.

From elementary particle physics, to biological sexuality, to social interactions, to astronomical bodies, to aesthetics, one can find relevance. It is the most intriguing symbol of all. I am perpectually amused by how accurate it discribes the universal laws at such ancient time with such simplicity. One thing it does not cover is the irreversibility of time function. But who knows. Can light and time come back in cycle from infinity?

Siu-Leung Lee
FROM:http://www.asiawind.com <sllee@asiawind.com>
- Thursday, December 23, 1999 at 23:18:31 (PS


SUBJECT:
Ying and Yang Logo
COMMENT:
The logo dipicting Ying and Yang is perhaps the most well-known Chinese symbol. It looks like this.

It seems to me that everyone knows it, yet no one knows it. Is the symbol above shown correctly? Or is it upside down? Rotate 90% to the right? To the left?

Every one simply copies from some one else, without doing any research. I cannot find an authoritative source for this. Can anyone help?

I don't think Lao Tze invented it? But who did?

Ming
FROM:Ming L Pei <pei@chinapage.org>
- Thursday, December 23, 1999 at 14:25:57 (PS


SUBJECT:
Hua Tuo - anestheisa
COMMENT:
Hua Tuo's Ma Fei San ³Âªm´² has been found to consist of belladonna alkaloids from the plant Datura innoxia ¬vª÷ªá. There is a book published in 1973 "¤¤Ãij¾KªºÁ{§ÉÀ³¥ÎÉO±´°Q" (Discussion of clinical applications of Chinese medicines in anesthesia) with scientific supports.

The use of plant medicine for anesthesia started in 500 BC with Bian Chue who was said to "drug" people and then performed heart-exchange surgery.(Liezi¦C¤l)
¾|¤½±¯¡B»¯»ôÀ¦¤G¤H¦³¯e¡A¦P½Ð«óÄN¨Dªv¡A«óÄNªv¤§¡A¬J¦P·U¡C¿×¤½±¯¡B »ôÀ¦¤ê¡G¡u¦¼Ä䤧©Ò¯e¡A¦Û¥~¦Ó¤z©²Âê̡A©TÃÄ¥Û¤§©Ò¤w¡C¤µ¦³°º¥Í¤§¯e¡A »PÅé°ºªø¡A¤µ¬°¦¼§ð¤§¡A¦ó¦p¡S¡v¤G¤H¤ê¡G¡uÄ@¥ý»D¨äÅç¡C¡v«óÄN¿×¤½±¯¤ê¡G ¡u¦¼§Ó¾Ê¦Ó®ð®z¡A¬G¨¬©ó¿Ñ¦Ó¹è©óÂ_¡C»ôÀ¦§Ó®z¦Ó®ð¾Ê¡A¬G¤Ö©ó¼{¦Ó¶Ë©ó±M ¡C­Y´«¦¼¤§¤ß¡A«h§¡©óµ½¨o¡C¡v«óÄN¹E¶¼¤G¤H¬r°s¡A°g¦º¤T¤é¡A­å¯Ý±´¤ß¡A ©ö¦Ó¸m¤§¡A§ë¥H¯«ÃÄ¡C¬J®©¦pªì¡A¤G¤HÃãÂk¡.

I can't say for heart exchange, but the anesthesia probably was known then. Hua Tuo probably learned it through some documentation.

siu-Leung Lee
FROM:htp://www.asiawind.com <sllee@asiawind.com>
- Wednesday, December 22, 1999 at 23:58:14 (PS


SUBJECT:
Hua Tuo- Chinese Physician Extraordinaire
COMMENT:

Dear Yoon-Ngan

You have done a wonderful write-up on Hua Tuo. The summary is a concise story of Hua Tuo's rather misty life history.

May I add that the actual name of Hua Tuo is still debatable. The name Hua Tuo is not his real name and came from the Indian God of Medicine. Also, the circumstances leading to his death at the hands of Cao Cao, the cunning and capable Prime Minister of the declining Han court, were historically vague. One version, as written by you, is that Cao Cao wanted him to be his personal physician, and when Hua Tuo disappeared, Cao Cao felt that Hua Tuo had defected to his enemies. On capture, he was executed.

Another version, mentioned that he was treating Cao Cao's illness (?migraine?tumour), and when he advised Cao Cao to have a brain surgery, he was suspected of trying to kill Cao Cao. Being the ultra-paranoid that he was, Cao Cao took no chance and had the physician executed, so that he could not continue his good work for any enemy. Hua Tuo's death also had two versions, one being a death in prison from sickness and torture, and another by heheading.

The tragedy of Hua Tuo was a great loss to Chinese and world medicine. Hua Tuo was definitely an enlightened physician, very versatile in all forms of medical art. He was an exponent of acupuncture and excelled in surgery. Guan Yu, the sworn brother and famous general of Liu Bei, who was later diefied as Guan Gong, the Chinese God of War, had an arrow head removed by Hua Tuo while he was playing a chess or board game. As a child, I remembered a picture of the strong warrior, Guan Yu, with a calm disposition and playing chess while Hua Tuo was cutting the back of his chest. Hua Tuo also encouraged calisthenics (body exercises) far ahead of his time. His medical experience in the book that you mentioned was lost to all posterity when the prison warden burnt it for fear of being discovered while in possession of it.

In spite of his greatness, I must caution that some writers went overboard by attributing open heart surgery to him. He obviously had tried trephining (boring a hole in the skull for brain tissue removal)as the Incas of ancient times were also noted to have done. He might have tried abdominal surgery, but I doubt many of his patients would have survived sepsis. He was also said to be an expert in gynecology, a subject usually reserved for Chinese midwives.

Yet, he was well ahead of his time, bearing in mind the dislike of the Chinese for surgery, to advocate surgical intervention, especially for abscesses and dermatological problems. Also, interestingly, he used a plant, (as you mentioned) called Ma Fei San or Ma Fu San, as anaesthetic, surely the first time in the world that a physician has used anaesthetic. When I was in Chengdu recently, I found the hua jiao (flower chilli) to have an anaesthetic effect on the tongue. I wonder why the Chinese or Western pharmacologists have not get a pure extract of these plants for anaesthetic use.

I hope Jerry will be stimulated to do more research on Hua Tuo, surely the greatest of Chinese Physician.

Tin-Kay


FROM:Tin-Kay Goh <tinkgoh@ozemail.com.au>
Sydney, NSW Australia - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 19:06:53 (PS
SUBJECT:
Re: Hua Tuo
COMMENT:
Hau Tou (µØ¦ï) alias Hua Yuan Hua (µØ¤¸¤Æ) and Fu (µØ¼Å) was born in the prefecture of Qiao (Ã×°p) which is in present day Bo Xian (­½¿¤) in Anhui province (¦wÀ²¬Ù). The exact year of his birth was not recorded in history. However, it was believed that he was born and died during the Later Han Dynasty (ªFº~´Â25AD to 220AD)..He was a scholar and a mathematician. Many scholars suggested that he should become an official, but he ignored their advice. The Later Han Court wanted to employ him as a high-ranking official but he declined the offer. Hua Tuo was very interested in medicine and he did a lot of research in herbal medicine. He was the first surgeon in the world to administer anesthetic on a patient to perform operation. He used a mixture called Ma Fei San (³Âªm´²)to anesthetize a patient before the operation. Hua Tuo travelled from places to places to cure sick people. The historical recorded that he had cured patients in the present day provinces of Anhui, Shandong, Henan, and Jiangsu. Gan Yu (Ãö¦Ð), or better known as Guan Gong (Ãö¤½), see chapter 75 of the classical novel The Romance of Three Kingdoms. Cao Cao (±ä¾Þ), the Prime Minister, had a minor stroke. Hau Tuo was requested by officials to cure Cao Cao. With only one injection Hau Tuo cured Cao Cao's minor stroke. Cao Cao wanted Hua Tuo to stay with him. Hua Tuo did not want to become a professional surgeon and wanted to leave Cao Cao. So one day he told Cao Cao that he wanted to go home to fetch some medicine. Without suspicion Cao Cao allowed him to go. Once Hau Tuo had left Cao Cao he disappeared in the landscape of the wilderness. Seeing no sign for Hua Tuo's return Cao Cao sent out search parties to seek for the escapist. Eventually Hua Tuo was arrested. Hua Tuo was imprisoned and suffered tortures. In order to preserve what he had done on medcine Hua Tuo had recorded his exprience in a book while he was travelling through the land doing doctering. He entitled this book "Qing Nang Jing («CÅn¸g)." He knew he was going to die Hau Tuo gave the Qing Nang Jing a prison warden to keep and also told him that the book saved lives. This prison warden was afraid that if he were to keep the book he could be implicated in Hau Tuo's case. So he burned the book and within a few minutes Hua Tuo's log book turned into ashes. Hua Tuo died in prison. It is believed that the current log book Zhong Nang Jing (¤¤Ån¸g) alleged to be written by Hua Tuo was actually compiled by an imposter. However, it is still presently being used as a medical book by the medical herbalists CHUNG Yoon-Ngan..
FROM:CHUNG Yoon-Ngan <chungyn at joinet.net.au>
- Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 01:24:15 (PS
SUBJECT:
Hua Tou ... Ancient Chinese Doctor
COMMENT:
Looking for imformation about Hua Tou. When did he live, and why is he remembered as a great doctor? Thank you for your time. Jerry
FROM:Jerry <wu-hisn@webtv.net>
Morro Bay, CA USA - Monday, December 20, 1999 at 16:03:04 (PS
SUBJECT:
Han Fei Zi: The Old Horse(s) Knew The Way
COMMENT:
Dear Kim:

You can find this and other stories by Han Fei Zi at this website.
From the homepage, click on "Story/Parable."
Or, go there directly at http://www.chinapage.org/story/story.html

It is indeed remarkable that Chinese historians from 2,000 years ago recorded these events in great details, and not only are they preversed until today, we can still read the original texts easily, as our resident scholars showed.

Ming
FROM:Ming L Pei <pei@chinapage.org>
- Monday, December 20, 1999 at 15:28:49 (PS


SUBJECT:
Martial arts
COMMENT:
Dear Mr. Pei,
I have been looking, to no avail, for information on a martial art called 'Sho Shun Ru'. It is very old kung fu system that was banned, like most of the others. If you have any information on this, or can maybe point me in the right direction, I would greatly appreciate it.
Thank you.
Sato

FROM:Sato
- Monday, December 20, 1999 at 15:09:26 (PS
SUBJECT:
ancient sculpture
COMMENT:
hi!
my name is bartek. I'm a student of culture studies in poland, I'm 23 and since 4 years I'm looking for a pictures and informations about strange (for me), ancient sculpture. I've seen it on tv in a "lost cultures" series (or something) - but I can't find this on video... now I'll try to describe it.
it was a tall sculpture (about 3-6 meters height), I think it was some kind of god... I suppose it was made much earlier than famuse 'terracota soldiers'. hmmm... the enemy of a dynasty who made it crushed this sculpture into thousends of small pieces and the archeologyst (in this series) put it together ( first they made a drawing of this sculpture)... so if you could send me some informations about it I will be grateful.
greetings from poland...
bartek

FROM:bartek
Poland, - Monday, December 20, 1999 at 15:04:21 (PS
SUBJECT:
Han Fei Zi: The Old Horse(s) Knew The Way
COMMENT:
Dear Tin Kay, The whole story is in chapter 21 in the classical novel Dong Zhou Lie4 Guo2 Zhi4. Your summary of this chapter is fantastic. The real name of Qi Huan Gong was Jiang Xiao3 Bai2, the 15th ruler of Qi, who ruled the State of Qi Qi (present day Lin2 Zi county in Shandong province) from 685BC to 643BC. Jiang Xiao3 Bai2 was a very talented ruler. Due to his ability the State of Qi became a hegemonic State for more than 30 years, but he had a horrific death. Yoon-Ngan.
FROM:CHUNG Yoon-Ngan <chungyn@mozart.joinet.net.au>
- Monday, December 20, 1999 at 08:43:39 (PS
SUBJECT:
¦Ñ °¨ ÃÑ ³~ and ¶ë ¯Î ¥¢ °¨
COMMENT:
Dear Kim,

In the story of "The old man at the northern border who lost his hores" also tells how his horse recognises the way back and it brings along with it a whole bunch of fine horses.

In some historical events, we are told that some generals who also depended on the old horses to find their way back when they got lost in unfamiliar terrains and territories.
FROM:Julian Yiu
Canada - Monday, December 20, 1999 at 07:49:19 (PS


SUBJECT:
Han Fei Zi: The Old Horse(s) Knew The Way
COMMENT:

Dear Kim

You are right that it was Han Fei Zi who wrote about this interesting tale of the old horse which knows the way. The idiom implies a person of experience or ¡°a wise old owl".

The true story occurred during the Spring and Autumn Period when the minority tribe in Shanrong Kingdom (ɽÈÖ¹ú) attacked the state of Yan (Ñà¹ú). Yan appealed to the State of Qi (Æë¹ú) for help and Qi Huangong (Æë»¸¹«), the Duke of Qi, decided to lead the troops himself, accompanied by his wise minister, Guan Zhong (¹ÜÖÙ). The Qi troops defeated the Shanrong army and pursued the King of Shanrong into the Kingdom of Guzhu (¹ÂÖñ¹ú).

Although the Qi army was victorious, the campaign dragged on from spring into winter. When the Qi troops finally wanted to return home, they found the roads and landscape covered with snow, without any proper passage way despite sending out their scouts. Reaching this deadly impasse, the Qi army was trapped. Then Guan Zhong came out with the idea of setting out some old horses free to roam about. Sure enough the old horses were able to find the way out.

Han Fei Zi, himself, had a colourful life as he was a political philosopher of the Marchiavellian mould. He was born in 280 BC in the state of Han (different from the later Han Dysnasty of Liu Bang) during the Warring States Period. He felt that human beings are basically self-centered and the benevolence of virtuous rulers to set a good example for governmental conduct as proposed by Confucius and Mencius was ineffective. In his views, the government needed two ¡°handles¡±, viz. Reward and Punishment. He belonged to the Legalist school which combined law, power and statecraft into a effective, impersonal but regimented state organisation.

Han Fei Zi was initially not called for service by his own native ruler, the King of Han. When Qin was bent on attacking Han, he was sent as an envoy to Qin, whose King, later to become the First Emperor of China (Qin Shi Huangdi) , promptly imprisoned him. The Qin Prime Minister, Li Su, who was Han Fei Zi¡¯s former fellow student and Legalist, then persuaded the Qin king to execute him with a poisoned drink in 233 BC.

Li Su, himself, met his doom when the Qin Dynasty fell, and the people he sought shelter with had to report him, under the pain of death, to the authorities under the very Draconian law that he enacted for Qin Shi Huangdi.

Tin-Kay


FROM:Tin-Kay Goh <tinkgoh@ozemail.com.au>
Sydney, NSW Australia - Monday, December 20, 1999 at 07:18:47 (PS
SUBJECT:
Han Fei Zi: The Old Horse(s) Knew The Way
COMMENT:
Dear Kim You are right that it was Han Fei Zi who wrote about this interesting tale of the old horse(s) which knew the way. The idiom implies a person of experience or ¡°a wise old owl¡±. The true story occurred during the Spring and Autumn Period when the minority tribe in Shanrong Kingdom (ɽÈÖ¹ú) attacked the state of Yan (Ñà¹ú). Yan appealed to the State of Qi (Æë¹ú) for help and Qi Huangong (Æë»¸¹«), the Duke of Qi, decided to lead the troops himself, accompanied by his wise minister, Guan Zhong (¹ÜÖÙ). The Qi troops defeated the Shanrong army and pursued the King of Shanrong into the Kingdom of Guzhu (¹ÂÖñ¹ú). Although the Qi army was victorious, the campaign dragged on from spring into winter. When the Qi troops finally wanted to return home, they found the roads and landscape covered with snow, without any proper passage way despite sending out their scouts. Reaching this deadly impasse, the Qi army was trapped. Then Guan Zhong came out with the idea of setting out some old horses free to roam about. Sure enough the old horses were able to find the way out. Han Fei Zi, himself, had a colourful life as he was a political philosopher of the Marchiavellian mould. He was born in 280 BC in the state of Han (different from the later Han Dysnasty of Liu Bang) during the Warring States Period. He felt that human beings are basically self-centered and the benevolence of virtuous rulers to set a good example for governmental conduct as proposed by Confucius and Mencius was ineffective. In his views, the government needed two ¡°handles¡±, viz. Reward and Punishment. He belonged to the Legalist school which combined law, power and statecraft into a effective, impersonal but regimented state organisation. Han Fei Zi was initially not called for service by his own native ruler, the King of Han. When Qin was bent on attacking Han, he was sent as an envoy to Qin, whose King, later to become the First Emperor of China (Qin Shi Huangdi) , promptly imprisoned him. The Qin Prime Minister, Li Su, who was Han Fei Zi¡¯s former fellow student and Legalist, then persuaded the Qin king to execute him with a poisoned drink in 233 BC. Li Su, himself, met his doom when the Qin Dynasty fell, and the people he sought shelter with had to report him on the pain of death to the authorities, under the very Draconian law that he enacted for Qin Shi Huangdi. Tin-Kay
FROM:Tin-Kay Goh <tinkgoh@ozemail.com.au>
Sydney, NSW Australia - Monday, December 20, 1999 at 07:00:05 (PS
SUBJECT:
Aomen (Macao) returns to China !
COMMENT:
Colonialism Ending in Asia as China Reclaims Macao

- Front page
New York Times
December 19, 1999


FROM:Ming L Pei <pei@chinapage.org>
- Sunday, December 19, 1999 at 11:32:01 (PS


SUBJECT:
Old horse
COMMENT:
I am researching the origin of the Chinese wisdom: "The old horse knows the road.

An outdated URL seems to attribute it to Han Fei-zi:

{HYPERLINK "http://click.hotbot.com/director.asp?id=9&target=http://www.gio.gov.tw/info/sinorama/8505/pcut_e0.html&query=Han+Fei&rsource=LCOSW1"}Sinorama Magazine - Stories Told in Chinese Paper Cuts: An Old Horse Knows the - An Old Horse Knows the Road Meaning:An experienced person is familiar with a particular situation, and therefore is able to judge it accurately. Source:From "Han Fei Zi--Comments on Various Topics fro.

http://www.gio.gov.tw/info/sinorama/8505/pcut_e0.html

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

Kim Marie Wood


FROM:Kim Marie Wood
- Saturday, December 18, 1999 at 07:47:27 (PS


SUBJECT:
A book on Chinese culture and her demise
COMMENT:
Yesterday, I was introduced to a book by the former director of Shanghai Academy of Drama, Yu Qiuyu. It is called "The Bitter Journey of Culture" (referring to Chinese culture).

It is a collection of short essays on his personal experience at different places in China. Part of it is on the internet web. I would recommend reading on the Dunhuang chapter. You would need to have GB fonts to read it.
http://www.home.sj.net.cn/~zhouwei/whkl.htm

And about the author:
http://www.xinhuabookshop.com/book/author/yu-qy.htm

I have not read any new Chinese books for a while. Reading the few chapters on the net urges me to buy this book. It has been a bestseller for quite a while.

Siu-Leung Lee
FROM:http://www.asiawind.com <sllee@asiawind.com>
- Thursday, December 16, 1999 at 04:41:36 (PS


SUBJECT:
To Alfred
COMMENT:
Alfred:

I wrote a number of emails to you and have yet to receive any acknowledgement from you.

Please send an email to me from a working email address ASAP

Regards,
Ming

FROM:Ming L Pei <pei@chinapage.org>
- Wednesday, December 15, 1999 at 06:10:20 (PS


SUBJECT:
Found new address of broken link
COMMENT:
Thanks Robyn. I made the correction.


FROM:Ming L Pei <pei@chinapage.org>
- Tuesday, December 14, 1999 at 17:49:37 (PS


SUBJECT:
Found new address of broken link
COMMENT:
The web address you list in the poetry links for Richard Darsie's Poetry page is not correct. After some searching, I found the new address, which is: http://members.xoom.com/darsie/library/ Hope this helps!!
FROM:Robyn
- Monday, December 13, 1999 at 22:47:50 (PS
SUBJECT:
Thank you!
COMMENT:
Just want to express my appreciation to all of those who have answered my question on 'TUI BEI TU', especially to Ming, R.Chiang and Siu-Leung. Thank you so much because they really help me a lot for my project paper.
FROM:Wan-Jun Chen <chenwan@mail.net.my>
KL, Malaysia - Monday, December 13, 1999 at 19:34:14 (PS
SUBJECT:
Moratorium on Politics
COMMENT:
I hereby declare a moratorium on all discussions related to political matters, until after December 21, 1999.

During this time, I shall spell out some policies and guidelines which I shall expect everyone to honor and follow, not just to the letter, but in spirit as well.

Ming


FROM:Ming L Pei <pei@chinapage.org>
- Monday, December 13, 1999 at 08:19:08 (PS


SUBJECT:
China - cultural force
COMMENT:
The history of China as a unit under Qin was probably by cohersion rather than cohesion from the onset. But we cannot ignore that the subsequent integration of other neighbors into China also resulted on a volunter basis. Wei (Xian bei) was so fond of Chinese culture, the king (emperor) forbid his own people to speak their own language and their own costume. They totally sinocized. Mongolians and Manchurians "conquered" China by force, but China conquered them by culture. For now, may be few of these neighbors would recognize China as their cultural mother, because China still has not shaken out the pauverty. The day China becomes a world economic power again, the influence could be different. And that is what the west fears. The policy of divide and rule is not only that of UK. The Ming dynasty China could have taken up a lot of colonies through the trip of Zheng He (Cheng Ho)¾G©M, but it didn't. The Chinese philosophy has been "wang" ¤ý(to pursuade by goodness) rather than "ba" ÅQ (to win by force). I would like to see a world of countries competing on the merit of the cultural force peacefully so that it will evolve into something of the choice for all.
FROM:http://www.asiawind.com <sllee@asiawind.com>
- Sunday, December 12, 1999 at 21:02:50 (PS
SUBJECT:
Columbus was a sailor, he just went the wrong way....
COMMENT:
[Deleted by Webmaster]

FROM:Bob K.
USA - Sunday, December 12, 1999 at 18:05:34 (PS
SUBJECT:
Dragon - wings?
COMMENT:
Elko Schmidt,

Most Chinese dragons have no wings, at least the common ones we portrait in the symbol to represent China. In Song and Ming dynasties, some porcelains have dragons with wings, two to four. These are called "Ying" Dragons À³Às and "Kui" dragons ÄÜÀs. They are especially found in the southern kilns, but rarely in the northern products.

Siu-Leung Lee
FROM:http://www.asiawind.com <sllee@asiawind.com>
- Sunday, December 12, 1999 at 17:03:10 (PS


SUBJECT:
What is China?
COMMENT:
Dear Alfred,

Aomen, rather than Macao, certainly goes better with Aolung. :)

"China" in my definition is not PRC, or ROC or Qing dynasty. It was made up of a federation of states combined through the thousands of years of resolution of conflicts. In China, Mongolians, Islams, Hans,... and all the 56 ethnic groups coexist in a body. Vietnam, Korea, Mongolia, were in this body one time. Historically, some were coherced, others were integrated peacefully. We can't trace back to the infinity now, otherwise, Chinese may claim a greater portion of the American continent too. China and Han by origin are not homogeneous ethnically.

What we were talking about was the cessation of Hong Kong and Aomen to Britain and Protugal respectively by the unequal "treaties", and how they were reversed. The issue of Tibetans to China is more like the Mexicans in Texas to US. Many are integrated in US. If some Mexicans in Texas want to reclaim Texas and set up TexaMexicao nation under the adminstration of Mexicans, it certainly will be met with objections from the rest of the US.

SL Lee
FROM:http://www.asiawind.com <sllee@asiawind.com>
- Sunday, December 12, 1999 at 14:56:33 (PS



FROM:A.W. Tueting <Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de>
- Sunday, December 12, 1999 at 10:04:11 (PS
SUBJECT:
Politics or not?
COMMENT:
Dear Alfred,

The Tibet issue was similar to the breaking up of Russia. It was a major "foreign policy" of Britain. I just happened to receive a newspaper clipping a few hours ago. I will post it at my site and provide a link here for you and everybody.
Divide and Conquer, the British way
Since the colonial days of India, Britain has been trying to promote "Tibetan independence".

About Tibet's history, there is a very detailed site you can read up: China's Tibet
Tibet is an autonomous region in China. Its status is far better than the native American nations in US. We can discuss more after you reading these articles.

Siu-Leung Lee
FROM:http://www.asiawind.com <sllee@asiawind.com>
- Sunday, December 12, 1999 at 04:09:14 (PS


SUBJECT:
Politics or not?
COMMENT:
Bob,

You can call it politics. You can call it history. You can call it cultural change. Whatever it is called, does not overturn the fact that Chinese had been robbed for a significant period of time. Many of the national treasures are now lying in British museums, Japanese museums, US museums. They were not properly auctioned by Christi or Sotherby. Many were looted by the combined force of the nations. It was fortunate that the technology was not advanced enough to excavate the Qin and Han tombs. Or the terra cotta soldiers would not be displayed in China. I have a very thick book that describes all the lost treasures. While the Jews are now claiming the Swiss banks had dealt with Nazi loots of paintings, bank deposits etc, who is here to reclaim the invaluble relics stolen from China?

Even though Takaki san has been a friend of mine and our forum, and he contributed a lot in sharing the Japanese collections of Chinese calligraphy, I still have to point out these facts.

America has not been under the same situation as China did, under the colonial rule by another nation. It would be hard to understand the rage and pain Chinese have.

China's loss may still have some reward is that people in other parts of the world can appreciate the advanced technology and artistry China had in the past years. Yet the price is too high for China.

Siu-Leung Lee
FROM:http://www.asiawind.com <sllee@asiawind.com>
- Saturday, December 11, 1999 at 19:42:25 (PS


SUBJECT:
Discussion
COMMENT:
Dear Bob:

After 112 years, the occupation of Aomen by a foreign colonial power is finally coming to an end.

This is the occasion for rejoice and celebration.

Not politics, Bob.

Ming


FROM:Ming L Pei <pei@chinapage.org>
- Saturday, December 11, 1999 at 18:36:14 (PS


SUBJECT:
discussion
COMMENT:
Boy, this discussion sounds very political to me. Just wondering, Bob
FROM:Bob K.
- Saturday, December 11, 1999 at 15:48:24 (PS
SUBJECT:
7 sons
COMMENT:
Dear Ming,

Certainly you are right. I was quoting their "official" term - trade ports. These were daggers in China's heart. Of all the years I stayed in Hong Kong, I had been under the British rule. I had teachers from the "Commonwealth" who knew nothing about teaching nor the courses they taught. They had the position only because they were white and British subjects. They occupied the most expensive residential areas that was almost exclusive for the British, on Chinese soil. Except that they did not hang out a sign "Chinese and dogs not allowed", it is no different from the Bun of Shanghai.

The film "Lin Ze Xu" was forbidden to be shown in Hong Kong. That was in 1960s. Travellers to mainland China would be threatened to be blacklisted. On and on. When I went to Shanghai in early 1990s, the colonial districts are still obvious from the style of the architecture. All these carved in my heart for years. It was certainly more than 7 sons that our motherland had lost, but the scar was none as big as Hong Kong, Aomen and Taiwan.

Siu-Leung Lee
FROM:http://www.asiawind.com <sllee@asiawind.com>
- Saturday, December 11, 1999 at 07:30:39 (PS


SUBJECT:
7 sons
COMMENT:
Dear Siu-Leung:

Much more than just trade! By forcing the Chinese government to sign the Unequal Treaties, the foreign powers obtained territories and occupied them as Occupation Authorities.

In the so-called "concessions", they unforced on the residents foreign laws, foreign polices, foreign courts with foreing judges, backed up by foreign soldiers with guns. They collected taxes, and evicted anyone they did not like. It is called "extra-territory" rule.

I lived briefly under the occupied area. I, for one, shall celebrate the expulsion of the Portuguese from Aomen!


FROM:Ming L Pei <pei@chinapage.org>
- Saturday, December 11, 1999 at 07:04:15 (PS


SUBJECT:
7 sons
COMMENT:
Dear Yoon_ngan,

You are probably right about the other 5 sons which were referred to By Wen Yi Duo. However, the difference is the other 5 never left the Chinese administration. They were only open for trades. I wonder how Wen assigned them in the same category. In that case, there will be more: Tianjin, Luxun, Dailian, Qingdao....

Siu-Leung Lee
FROM:http://www.asiawind.com <sllee@asiawind.com>
- Saturday, December 11, 1999 at 00:32:44 (PS


SUBJECT:
Re: Aomen
COMMENT:
Dear Tin-Kay, The five sons were; Guangzhou, Fuzhou, Xizmen, Ningbo and Shanghai Yoon-Ngan.
FROM:CHUNG Yoon-Ngan <chungyn@mozart.joinet.net.au>
- Friday, December 10, 1999 at 23:52:26 (PS
SUBJECT:
7 sons
COMMENT:
Dear Tin-Kay,

The corrupted Qing dynasty has signed off so many territories, it is probably more than 7. But I could name the following few: Mongolia "indpendence", Taiwan to Japan, Ryukyu to Japan, Northeast 3 provinces to Russia, Vietnam to French, Myanmar to British, ...

Siu-Leung
FROM:http://www.asiawind.com <sllee@asiawind.com>
- Friday, December 10, 1999 at 23:17:43 (PS


SUBJECT:
Aomen: The Seventh Son
COMMENT:

Dear Yoon-Ngan

Thanks for posting up the stirring patriotic poem on Aomen. The colonization of China has been a painful past, with so many unfair treaties and the "opiumization" of generations of Chinese, as well as clubs with signs saying "Dogs and Chinese not allowed".

Can you please elaborate on who are the first Five Sons, as Hong Kong (Xianggang) is the Sixth, and Macau (Aomen) is the Seventh? In accordance with Ming's advice, I will now use Aomen for Macau in all the correspondence.

Tin-Kay


FROM:Tin-Kay Goh <tinkgoh@ozemail.com.au>
Sydney, NSW Australia - Friday, December 10, 1999 at 17:51:59 (PS
SUBJECT:
To: Alfred
COMMENT:
Alfred:

May I suggest that you go to msn.com and sign up for a free email from hotmail.com

This way you avoid the SMTP email system entirely. In you case, you can receive and send email freely using your browser.

It is better to stop using your old email addresses for a period of time, until things settle down.

Ming
FROM:Ming L Pei <pei@chinapage.org>
- Friday, December 10, 1999 at 17:43:33 (PS


SUBJECT:
To: Alfred
COMMENT:
Losing three emails and now you are posting three duplicates on the forum to make up for it :).

Glad you like the calendar. "Hui Zheng" is a commonly used term in dedication of calligraphy or painting. There is a similar saying in English, "Kindly correct me if I am wrong".

Siu-Leung Lee
FROM:http://www.asiawind.com <sllee@asiawind.com>
- Friday, December 10, 1999 at 17:36:39 (PS


SUBJECT:
Dear Ming and friends...
COMMENT:

...thanks for your concern: I am really having quite some difficulties these weeks - still unable to access my email account, now also totally cut off the last days again. Will have to install and configure everthing totally anew because also my e-mail addresses are not accessable for the moment (that's why I am writing on the forum). Also had to take my old office monitor home in order to again be able to get online some hours ago. Troubles all around :(( yet still alive and kicking!

Dear Siu-Leung, your beautiful calendar arrived these days, and I am really happy with it - it was a big surprise. Thank you very much for it. I also like the dedication in your handwriting (how would you exactly translate the compound term "hui zheng"?).

Dear Siu-Leung, your beautiful calendar arrived these days, and I am really happy with it - it was a big surprise. Thank you very much for it. I also like the dedication in your handwriting (how would you exactly translate the compound term "hui zheng"?).

Hope being back soon.

Alfred

http://www.fa-kuan.muc.de
Traces of Butterflies' Dreams - ***/*™
My Poetry


FROM:A.W. Tueting <Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de>
- Friday, December 10, 1999 at 14:00:41 (PS
SUBJECT:
Alfred
COMMENT:
Dear Alfred:

None of us has heard from you direcly since the 'event.' We are concerned.

Will you send me an email?

Ming

FROM:Ming L Pei <pei@chinapage.org>
- Friday, December 10, 1999 at 11:27:31 (PS


SUBJECT:
Tui Bei Tu ±À­I¹Ï Back Massage Diagrams
COMMENT:
Dear Mr. Chan,

±À ­I ¹Ï is a very common book. You should be able to find it in Chinese bookstores.

There are a few scholars who have published their interpretation of this book. The most famous one is ¤µ ¸t ¹Ä . Their interpretation seem to be very accurate and convincing when they tried to explain past events. But when it comes to forecasting the future ones, their interpretation can be out of whack. May be this is what Chinese call " ¤Ñ ¾÷ ¤£ ¥i ªn º| ", : ) right Rudy ?
FROM:Julian Yiu
Canada - Friday, December 10, 1999 at 07:50:13 (PS


SUBJECT:
Aomen (formerly Macao)
COMMENT:
¿Dªù (Macau)

¤C¤l¤§ºq
The song of the seventh son

§A¥iª¾¹D Macau ¤£¬O§Úªº¯u¦W¡C
You should know that my name is not Macau.

§ÚÂ÷¶}§A¤Ó¤[¤F¡M ¥À¿Ë¡T
I had departed from you far too long, mother!

¦ý¬O¥L­Ì¾Û¥hªº¬O§Úªº¦×Åé¡C
However, what they had siezed from me was only my body.

§A¨ÌµM«OºÞºæ§Ú¤º¤ßªºÆF»î¡C
You still presevere the soul in my inner heart.

¤T¦Ê¦~¨Ó¹Ú´K¤£§Ñªº¥Í¥À°Ú¡T
For three hundred years, even in sleeping,
I had not forgotten my biological mother.

½Ð¥s¨àªº¨Å¦W¡M ¥s§Ú¤@Án
¡§¿Dªù¡¨¡T

Please call your son's baby name, call me
"Ao Men" !
¥À¿Ë ¡T §Ú­n¦^¨Ó¡M ¥À±¡ ¡T
Mother, I want to come home, mother !

74 years ago, the poet Wen Yi Duo (»D¤@¦h), wrote this poem. With tears he wrote down how sad he was to see the foreign powers siezed seven ports and cities from the Qing Government. Hong Kong, the sixth son, and Macau was the seventh son. That was why he titled this poem, the seventh son.

On 20th December 1999 Macau is going to be returned to China and the students from China are going to sing this song at the campus of University of Western Australia to celebrate the happy occasion.
Yoon-Ngan.

FROM:Yoon-Ngan
- Friday, December 10, 1999 at 06:42:34 (PS
SUBJECT:
Tui Bei Tu ±À­I¹Ï Back Massage Diagrams
COMMENT:
Throughout the history, there have been many future-predicting schemes; Tui Bei Tu is one of the countless schemes. Indeed, forture telling is always a popular industry.

Tui Bei Tu has 60 chapters, one for each of the 60 years for the Chinese calandar cycle.

The diagram for the current year is

The last (60-th) diagram is

The name Tui Bei Tu is obviously derived from this.

Ming


FROM:Ming L Pei <pei@chinapage.org>
- Friday, December 10, 1999 at 06:17:23 (PS


SUBJECT:
Tui Bei Tu ±À­I¹Ï Back Massage Diagrams
COMMENT:
This book is like "Nostradamus", but written a Chinese prophet in Tang dynasty. And it is said to have predicted all the events up to the downfall of Qing dynasty and even the Republic era. There are 60 chapters, each with poems and a picture. Any one can interpret the mythical poems and the pictures in his/her own way. The book has notes written by a Qing officer. It is interpreted up to Chapter 39 by a modern unknown author. It is quite an interesting reading. But it is anybody's belief if it really is that accurate.

Siu-Leung Lee
FROM:http://www.asiawind.com <sllee@asiawind.com>
- Friday, December 10, 1999 at 04:04:10 (PS


SUBJECT:
Tui Bei Tu ±À­I¹Ï Back Massage Diagrams
COMMENT:
This book was allegedly the work of the top advisor Lee Jun Fung, The top advisor and strategist for the founder emporer of Tang. ( Is it any surprise that the Lee's really do have lots of brillant descendants, SL?) :=)

The "original" copy was taken from the Imperial Palace by a British soldier at the time of the Boxer Revolution, which resulted in the Rape of Beijing by the "United Nations" of the day. This book was subsequently published in China after the collapse of the Ching Dynasty.

I am not aware of any English translations around. It is not an easy assign to do a report on this subject or book.

Do you have a special focus in mind? If there is a focus, perhaps Ican scan some of the chapters in the Club album for you over the weekend.

http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/chinathebeautiful

FROM:R. Chiang
- Thursday, December 09, 1999 at 23:32:17 (PS
SUBJECT:
Dragon
COMMENT:
Hello !
Do you know a special site for Asian-Dragons ?
I'm looking for a special Dragon-Picture.
It should be a (friendly, nice) "Chinese- or KungFu-Dragon with WINGS". It's very difficult to find someone - perhaps you can help me.
Thank you in advance
Elko
Do you know a special site for Asian-Dragons ? Do you know a special site for Asian-Dragons ?

FROM:Elko Schmidt <Elko.Schmidt@t-online.de>
- Thursday, December 09, 1999 at 16:59:18 (PS
SUBJECT:
Tui Bei Tu
COMMENT:
Dr. Ming L. Pei,
Good day, sir.
I am a student from Malaysia and looking for something for my paper work.
It's about the 'Tui Bei Tu' (this is only the phonetic spelling), the book contains 60 pictures that is known as one of the Chinese prophecies' resources. Can you please show me where and how can I get the information on it through the chinasite? If it's in English version will be best for me.
Thank you so much for spending your time reading my mail and trying to solve my problem. hope to hear from you as soon as possible.
Thank you.
Chen Wan Jun

FROM:Chen Wan Jun
- Thursday, December 09, 1999 at 16:49:35 (PS
SUBJECT:
Hong Kong Disneyland site a treasure
COMMENT:
In developing the Disneyland site in Hong Kong, 40 sunken ships were found to hold rare procelains Ç໨´ÉÆ÷ (blue procelain) of the Ming dynasty. Probably more than 10,000 will be recovered. This is the first underwater archaeological site in Hong Kong.

Siu-Leung Lee
FROM:http://www.asiawind.com <sllee@asiawind.com>
- Thursday, December 09, 1999 at 07:27:14 (PS


SUBJECT:
Jiaguwen (oracle script) and Central American culture
COMMENT:
The following is a piece of evidence that I have been looking for for years.

Ò»Ð©ÖøÃûµÄ¿¼¹Åѧ¼ÒºÍ¹ÅÎÄ×Öѧ¼Ò×î½ü¶Ô½üÈý°Ù¸ö´ÓÖÐÃÀÖÞÊÕ¼¯À´µÄ¹ÅÓ¡µÚ°²ÎÄ×Ö·ûºÅ³õ²½ ¼ø¶¨·¢ÏÖ£¬ ÕâЩ·ûºÅÓëÈýǧÄêǰÖйúµÄ¼×¹ÇÎÄÓÐמªÈ˵ÄÏàËÆ¡£ÓÉ´Ë£¬×¨¼ÒÍÆ²âÈÏΪ£¬¼×¹ÇÎÄÔøÔ¶¶ÉÖØÑóÓ°ÏìÖÐÃÀÖÞÎÄ Ã÷¡£

¡¡¡¡ÈÕǰÔÚÖ£ÖݽáÊøµÄ¡¸¼ÍÄî¼×¹ÇÎÄ·¢ÏÖÒ»°ÙÖÜÄê¹ú¼ÊѧÊõÑÐÌֻ᡹ÉÏ£¬ÃÀ¹úѧÕßÐí»ÔչʾÁËËûרÃÅ´øÀ´µÄ ¹ÅÓ¡µÚ°² ÎÄ×Ö·ûºÅ×ÊÁÏ¡£ÕâÊÇÐí»ÔÓÃÁËÎåÄêµÄʱ¼ä£¬´ÓÓ¡µØ°²ÔçÆÚÎÄÎÖîÈçÓñÆ÷¡¢Ê¯µñ¡¢ÌÕÆ÷¼°ÑÒʯÉÏÊÕ ¼¯µ½µÄ¡£

¡¡¡¡×¨¼Ò·¢ÏÖ£¬ÕâЩ×Ö·ûÓë¼×¹ÇÎĵÄÏàËÆÓ÷¨²»½ö±íÏÖÔÚũҵ·½Ã棬ÀýÈçÓꡢˮ¡¢Ìì¡¢ºÌ¡¢Ìľ¡¢Ê÷Ãç¡¢ Ì«Ñô¼°·½ 룬¶øÇÒ»¹±íÏÖÔÚ°Ý׿¼À×ÚºÍÎ×ÊõÉñ·¨ÉÏ£¬ÀàËÆÖйúÌì¸ÉµØÖ§¡¢Êý×ÖºÍØÔ»­µÈ·ûºÅ¡£

¡¡¡¡Ò»Ð©×¨¼ÒÏàÐÅ£¬¿¼²ìÁ½ÕßÖ®¼äµÄ¹ØÏµ£¬½«Îª¹ú¼Ê¿¼¹Åѧ½ç¡¢ÈËÀàѧ½ç̽ÌÖÖйúÒóÉÌÎÄÃ÷ÓëÖÐÃÀÖÞÎÄÃ÷Ö® ¼äµÄ¹ØÏµ £¬ÌṩÓÐÁ¦µÄʵ֤¡£ÒÔ¹ÅÎÄ×ÖΪ֤µÄ·ºÌ«Æ½ÑóÑо¿£¬»¹½«¶ÔÈËÀàÎÄÃ÷µÄÆðÔ´¡¢ÃÀÖÞÎÄÃ÷µÄÆðÔ´ÒÔ¼° ·ºÌ«Æ½ÑóµØÇø¹ÅÎÄ»¯×ªÒÆµÄ Ñо¿¾ßÓÐÖØ´óÒâÒå¡£

¡¡¡¡ÄϾ©´óѧÀúʷѧ½ÌÊÚ·¶Ø¹ÖÜ˵£¬Ðí»Ô´øÀ´µÄÎÄ×Ö£¬Óë¼×¹ÇÎĵÄÏàËÆ²»ÊǸö±ðµÄ¡¢¹ÂÁ¢µÄ¡£Õâ³ä·Ö˵Ã÷Òó ÉÌÎÄ»¯Óë ÖÐÃÀÖÞÎÄ»¯Ö®¼ä´æÔÚµÄÔ¨Ô´¹ØÏµ¡£ÒòΪÎÄ×ÖÊÇÎÄÃ÷µÄÖØÒªÔØÌ壬Á½ÖÖ»ò¶àÖÖÎÄ»¯²»¿ÉÄܶÀ×Ô´´Ôì³ö ÏàͬµÄÎÄ×Ö¡£·¶Ø¹ÖÜÈÏΪ£¬ ¸ù¾ÝÀúÊ·¼ÍÔØ£¬ÒóæûÍõµÄ¶ù×ÓÎä¸ý»¸¸ÔÚ¹ú¼ÒÃðÍöºó´øÁì×åÈ˱±±¼£¬ºÜ¿ÉÄÜÕⲿ ·ÖÈËÔ¶ÔÚ¸çÂײ¼Ö®Ç°£¬¾Í¶É¹ý°×ÁϿ£¬µ½´ï ¹ýÖÐÃÀÖÞ¡£

¡¡¡¡Óë´ËÏà¶ÔÓ¦£¬ÃÀ¹ú¹þ·ð´óѧѧÕß°¬¿ËºÉÄ·ÔøÌá³ö£¬ÑÇÒáÒÆÃñºÍ̽ÏÕ¼ÒÔçÔÚ¸çÂײ¼Ö®Ç°¾Í´ïµ½ÁËÃÀÖÞ£¬Ê¹ дó½µÄ ×ڽ̡¢ÒÕÊõ¡¢ÌìÎÄ¡¢½¨ÖþÅ·¢Õ¹£¬ÐγÉÃÀÖÞÀúÊ·ÉϵĵÚÒ»¸öÎÄÃ÷Éç»á¡£ËûÍÆ²â£¬ÃÀÖÞÎÄÃ÷¿ÉÄÜÆð Ô´ì¶Çàͭʱ´úµÄÉ̳¯£¬ÒòΪ ̫ƽÑóÁ½°¶Í¬Ê±ÆÚÓµÓÐÀàËÆµÄÒÕÊõ·ç¸ñºÍ×Ú½ÌÒâʶ¡£

Siu-Leung Lee
FROM:http://www.asiawind.com <sllee@asiawind.com>
- Thursday, December 09, 1999 at 07:14:34 (PS


SUBJECT:
Archaeology re-writes Chinese cultural history
COMMENT:
In developing highway through Guangzhou, a new site was found to date back to the Shang/Zhou to Zhanguo era(3600-2200 years ago), pushing the history of Guangzhou for more than 1000 years. Prior to this, Nan Yue kingdom was thought to be the first one to establish in Guangzhou. The following is in GB:

±±¶þ»·¹¤µØËù·¢ÏÖÂÞ¸ÚÕòÂ޸ڴ循ÒÏñ¼£¨ÓÖ³ÆÂíÎÑ»òÂí¡£©ºÍС?i´å×¶ÁÖ¸ÚÒÅÖ·. Âí¡ÒÅÖ·ÔÚ¸ûÍÁ²ã¡¢ÌÆËÎÎÄ»¯²ã֮Ϸ¢ÏÖÁË´óÁ¿Ã××ÖÎÆ¡¢·½¸ñÎÆ¡¢ ÉþÎÆµÈ¼¸ºÎÓ¡ÎÆÌÕÆ¬¡£ÏÖ ³¡»¹ÍÚ¾ò³öÄ¥ÖÆÊ¯¸«¡¢Ê¯ï¼µÈ¹¤¾ß²¢·¢ÏÖÏà¹ØÒż£. ×¶ÁÖ¸ÚÒÅÖ··¢ÏÖÔÆÀ×ÎÆ¡¢±àÖ¯ÎÆ¡¢ÉþÎÆ¡¢Ï¯ÎÆ¡¢·½¸ñÎÆµÈ´óÁ¿Ó¡ÎÆÌÕÆ¬.

Thus, the Cantonese dialect may be really a very ancient tongue.

A large group of tombs are found in Shandong that might include Fan Li, Zuo Qiu Ming and other famous people (Ô½¹ú´ó·ò·¶ó»¡¢¡¶×ó´«¡·×÷Õß×óÇðÃ÷ ¡¢¾üʼÒÎâÆðµÈÈË)in that area.

Xia/Shang transition is now determined to be about 1500-1600 BC
Shang/Zhou transition is about 1020-1050 BC.
From the record of sun eclipse in Shang dynasty, an accurate determination of the year ܲÍõÔªÄêÊǹ«ÔªÇ°°Ë°Ù¾ÅÊ®¾ÅÄê, 50 years earlier than previously reported.

A large amount of archaeological data indicate that Chinese culture is far more than 5000 years. From north to south, all the relics show a history of at least 5000 years. Many sites are 8000-9000 years old.

We will be seeing a revision of many textbooks, encyclopedia....

There is a piece of news about jiaguwen and the development of Central America that is missing. That would be very interesting.

The archaeological research in the last 50 years in China is very exciting indeed. If you can read GB, try the following site:
http://www.east.cn.net/culture/china/index.htm

Siu-Leung Lee
FROM:http:www.asiawind.com <sllee@asiawind.com>
- Thursday, December 09, 1999 at 06:40:03 (PS


SUBJECT:
Pre-Qin pottery kilns found in Guangdong
COMMENT:
I just read that pre-Qin potteries were found in a site near BoLo, in Guangdong. It is likely the East Pearl River was where pottery was first developed in China. This is the region with abundant Hakka settlements. This proves the ancient culture of China may not just lie in the Yellow River basin. The oldest neolithic site was also found near Chongqing, dating 15,000 years ago. These new findings may re-write the history of China.

Siu-Leung Lee
FROM:http:www.asiawind.com <sllee@asiawind.com>
- Thursday, December 09, 1999 at 05:48:20 (PS


SUBJECT:
North Pointing Turtle.....
COMMENT:
Actually the lively turtle is trying to swim south rather than north if we use the Chinese coordinates for map reading.
I found the turtle icon cute. I am not aware of any special meaning for its location or orientation on the web site.
Perhaps, it signifies the struggle against the current of the impending Y2K.

FROM:R. Chiang
- Wednesday, December 08, 1999 at 21:02:03 (PS
SUBJECT:
Rape of Beijing
COMMENT:
Rape of Beijing refers to the joint invasion of Beijing by 8 nations, (British, French, Japanese, Russian, German, American, Austrian, and Italian) In 1900 (Geng Zi in Chinese calendar), the joint force swept through Tianjin and beijing, killing numerous civilians and burnt to the ground the the most beautiful Yuan Ming Yuan, a summer palace. The 8 nations tried to divided up China.

The Boxers which are still described by western texts as the culprit were really the ones who stood up and fought against the invasion, although their organization, equipment and superstitution demonstrated the primitive facet of this movement. The Boxers movement was the first massive movement of revolution that soon spread to the whole China. Sun Yat Sen was influenced by the brave stories of the Boxers and finally started the revolution to overthrow the corrupted Qing dynasty. 1900 also signifies as the year Americans started to become the chief power to tear up China.

This is not to be confused with the Rape of Nanking(Nanjing) which was solely committed by Japanese during WW2.

SL Lee
FROM:http://www.asiawind.com <sllee@asiawind.com>
- Wednesday, December 08, 1999 at 13:21:05 (PS


SUBJECT:
Northpointing turtle
COMMENT:
Dear Ming,

I was puzzling too, but I found it but cutting off the subdirectory part and just access the root of the site, you will see everything there.

Less is more, as Laozi says. :)


FROM:http://www.asiawind.com <sllee@asiawind.com>
- Wednesday, December 08, 1999 at 12:50:25 (PS


SUBJECT:
North-pointing turtle
COMMENT:
Rudy:

I missed the reference about this. Will you re-post it?

FROM:Ming L Pei <pei@chinapage.org>
- Wednesday, December 08, 1999 at 11:56:10 (PS


SUBJECT:
China Literature
COMMENT:
Hello everyone, Well, I'm an undergraduate student in a local university from Malaysia that are accomplishing an assignment related to China Literature and its influence to other aspects such as politics, social, etc... I hope that whoever that have any information about it and willing to share it please reply to me. I really appreciate any help from you all... Thank you!!! Or'Ges
FROM:Or'Ges <khtan98@hotmail.com>
Skudai, JB Malaysia - Wednesday, December 08, 1999 at 11:17:17 (PS
SUBJECT:
information on Beijing
COMMENT:
I have a friend that has mentioned the Rape of Beijing. I did not want to seem like a fool so I changed the subject. I would now like to find out about what happened in Beijing/Peiking at the turn of the century
FROM:Phillip L. Newton <pnewt@prodigy.net>
Killeen, TX USA - Wednesday, December 08, 1999 at 10:22:56 (PS
SUBJECT:
Nice Turtle!
COMMENT:
Thank you very much for pointing me to the north pointing turtle, Alfred!
It's neat!

The quotation of "yang" being the south facing, sunny side, and the "Yin" being the shaded side is indeed the actual meaning of these two relativistic terms.

The Y2k concerns can be representated by the yang, whereas the potential impact of its manifestation will be the yin (for now). If and when the Y2K bugs starts to surface, the yin strategy (yin mou) becomes a yang mou ¶§¿Ñ¡C

FROM:R. Chiang
- Wednesday, December 08, 1999 at 00:33:23 (PS
SUBJECT:
Interesting Site on TCM etc.
COMMENT:

I want to introduce to you a very interesting Suisse site on Chinese TCM, Lao-tzu, I Ching (I Ging) etc.. It's also recommanded (mainly to Rudy Jiang) to also click the tortoise graphic (the page respective still being only in German though, the charts are easily understandable for people interested):

http://www.akupunktur.ch/ETCM.html

Alfred

http://www.fa-kuan.muc.de
Traces of Butterflies' Dreams - ***/*™
My Poetry


FROM:A.W. Tueting <Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de>
º}•ß*¬, ºw*Í - Tuesday, December 07, 1999 at 13:50:18 (PS
SUBJECT:
chinese literature audio tapes
COMMENT:
I am deperately searching for chinese literature audio tapes for an intermediate to advanced mandarin chinese speaker. I do not know where to find them!! Any suggestions? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
FROM:Elisabeth Sperry <epssm@aol.com>
Grafton, MA USA - Tuesday, December 07, 1999 at 10:21:38 (PS
SUBJECT:
Tang bowl
COMMENT:
Windodo: Before anyone can attempt to answer, you must first show a good photograph of the bowl.

From the top of this page, click on "Back to Discussion Page"
Then click on "Yahoo Club"
Click on "FAQ" which will explain the details of how to join and upload photos.


FROM:Ming L Pei <pei@chinapage.org>
- Tuesday, December 07, 1999 at 09:55:33 (PS


SUBJECT:
make up
COMMENT:
why do chinnese women wear white make up, this is a question for my daughters homework
FROM:robert davey <robertdavey@tesco.net>
bristol, england - Tuesday, December 07, 1999 at 08:56:17 (PS
SUBJECT:
Tang bowl
COMMENT:
Dear Sirs, I am a beginer in ceramic collecting hobby,recently there was a major discovery off the coast of Sumatra-Indonesia of Tang Dynasty Changsha ware, mostly bowls.One particular bowl is most interesting with an incised and glaze calligraphy inside the bowl.The writing is very wild and cursive.I am wondering if anyone could be kind enough to make out the words for me and who might wrote it?I am willing to send the photograph.I thank you for the kind attention and help. Warm Regards, Widodo Latip
FROM:Widodo Latip <latip@cbn.net.id>
Jakarta, Indonesia - Monday, December 06, 1999 at 23:56:22 (PS
SUBJECT:
Chinese Prince Story
COMMENT:
Dear Fred,

I can't figure out the story from your description. If you can take a picture of the gourd and scan it here or at our Yahoo Club, may be someone can tell you what it is.
FROM:Julian Yiu
Canada - Monday, December 06, 1999 at 07:36:54 (PS


SUBJECT:
Poetry translation
COMMENT:
Translation of Chinese poetry to English is a most challenging task.. Just to show how hard it is, look at the various translations by many translators of the same poem by Wang Wei

Also, these translations of one poem by Li Bai

I applaud these authors for their efforts of introducing Chinese poetry to the world at large.

Ming
FROM:Ming L Pei <pei@chinapage.org>
- Monday, December 06, 1999 at 07:24:54 (PS


SUBJECT:
Culture of The Hakkas
COMMENT:
Something about The Hakkas,who r the special ones in China. Its history,folklore,people,literature,research,and so on. Surely u will enjoy it. Please visit as below:(In Chinese,GB & big5) 1.http://home.gbsource.net/hakka 2.http://hakka.home.chinaren.net 3.http://www2.cs.uestc.edu.cn/~hakka 4.http://extend.hk.hi.cn/~cyz 5.http://personal.wol.com.cn/hakka
FROM:hakka <hakka@chinaren.com>
- Sunday, December 05, 1999 at 07:15:49 (PS
SUBJECT:
Chinese Prince story
COMMENT:
Was recently in Luoyang and bought a carved gourd with story of handsome prince in combat with evil prince. I have tried to locate the story but have not been able. Thanks kindly for any information on story name or character name(s).
FROM:Fred A;exander <zenith@ourmall.com>
Los Angeles, CA USA - Saturday, December 04, 1999 at 17:10:20 (PS
SUBJECT:
Buddha's Hand: The citron fruit
COMMENT:

Dear Moyogi

I have just posted a photo of a painting of the Buddha's Hand at the New Discussion Page at Yahoo (which is hyperlinked to CTB). You will notice that it is like a big lemon. Although it can be made into perfume, I have not known anyone to have used its scent for body fragrance. I am developing a Kodak photograph of the fruit (taken while I was in Fujian). Once printed, I will post the photo for you.

Tin-Kay

Tin-Kay


FROM:Tin-Kay Goh <tinkgoh@ozemail.com.au>
Sydney, NSW Australia - Saturday, December 04, 1999 at 08:03:30 (PS
SUBJECT:
Buddha's Hands
COMMENT:
The bringing together of the hands, in a vertical appearance, I believe originated in India. The name there is "namaste". It has nothing to do with "prayer" of any kind, since Buddha's way was 'godless'--there is no 'god' to pray to. It has become a common form of greeting in the East (especially Japan, and among Buddhists), the meaning of the gesture from India being "I salute the Divine in you". Both people do it, kinda like a handshake in the West, but with a far greater spititual significance. The Western Christian prayer gesture could well be derived from this, but I'm not sure on that...when I was "taught" how to 'pray' in the Greek Orthodox Church as a boy, I was told to cross all my fingers, that was the "proper" way, otherwise you were reprimanded,,,the open-hand prayer (more like the 'namaste ' was reserved for the Catholics, Protestants, etc. ...in other words the 'Barbarians'-- (according to the Greeks, anyway). :) I think the original 'Buddha's hands' (not the fruit, the real guy!) has a deep symbolic meaning, basically a vertical aspiration quality, similar in an architectural sense to the tall spires of a Christian Breakaway Church, or even a "pagoda" for that matter...i.e. man's spiritual longings are beyond the mundane, or as the Chinese I think have a saying--the "red dust" of this world... Bob
FROM:Bob
- Friday, December 03, 1999 at 15:07:53 (PS
SUBJECT:
Chinese Citron or Buddha's Hand
COMMENT:

Dear Moyogi

Further to what Julian and Ming have said, may I add that Citron is generally of two types:

1) The Citrus medica is oval or oblong, originated from S.E. Asia, and has been produced in the Mediterranean countries, India and Southern US. It is not eatened fresh, but can be eaten when salted and steeped in sugary syrup

2) The Citrus medica var. sarcodactylus (sarco-flesh, dactylus-fingers), also called the Buddha's hand, has tapered ends in the shape of the human fingers. It is longish, about 6-8 inches long and 3-4 inches across, and really looks like an elegant folded hand. It originated in Asia, and is now also produced in the Mediterranean. It can be eaten fresh, though not that palatable. Owing to it's strong scent, it is used with cloves for protecting clothings against insects. The oil can be used for perume.

During my travel in Fujian, South-eastern China, in October this year, I saw these Buddha hands being sold by hawkers at the various Buddhist temples. The devotees buy the fruits as offerings to Buddha during their prayers in the temples. They are not sold commercially in the fruit stalls in the cities. I have not seen the Buddha hands in North China.

The Jews apparently used a citron called the Etrog citron for religious purposes. I wonder whether the Etrog citron is actually the Buddha's hand. Maybe some Jewish reader can help to solve this.

Tin-Kay


FROM:Tin-Kay Goh <tinkgoh@ozemail.com.au>
Sydney, NSW Australia - Friday, December 03, 1999 at 05:38:26 (PS
SUBJECT:
lunar calender
COMMENT:
You can find the same info in the Feb II, 99 archive of this discussion page.
The date of the original postings was Mar 6, 1999.

FROM:R. chiang
- Thursday, December 02, 1999 at 19:44:49 (PS
SUBJECT:
Citron - ¦ò ¤â ¬a
COMMENT:
It belongs to the orange family.
FROM:Ming L Pei <pei@chinapage.org>
- Thursday, December 02, 1999 at 17:53:11 (PS
SUBJECT:
Citron - ¦ò ¤â ¬a
COMMENT:
Dear Moyogi,

From what little I know, citron is a kind of water melon. It is a pale-yellow citrus fruit resembling a lemon but larger. It is considered inedible. However, its appearance looks like two hands holding together as we would do when we pray. Chinese call this fruit " Buddha's hands melon". Therefore it is a very popular art craft subject. Normally wood is the material.

Hope others can give you a better answer.
FROM:Julian Yiu
Canada - Thursday, December 02, 1999 at 07:51:14 (PS


SUBJECT:
What is a citron and what does it play in China?
COMMENT:
To all concerned: I was wondering: What is a citron, and what parts did/does it play in Chinese mythology and/or China?
FROM:Moyogi <moyogi@hotmail.com>
NC USA - Wednesday, December 01, 1999 at 16:32:07 (PS
SUBJECT:
Empress Wu Zetian (Wu Zhao) of latter Zhou Dynasty ?
COMMENT:
Tin-Kay:
Thanks for the clarification.

FROM:Ming L Pei <pei@chinapage.org>
- Tuesday, November 30, 1999 at 10:34:14 (PS
SUBJECT:
lunar calender
COMMENT:
Hi, several people on this list helped me before and I am such a dunce I have misplaced the information. I have misplaced the information. Could someone once again give me the names of the periods of the lunar calender. They go like: season of hard rain, season of cold snow, etc. Like that. I appreciate your help. Lin

SUBJECT:
The word ¤§ in Chinese names
COMMENT:
Alfred raised the question about the word ¤§ in the Chinese "first name." I do not know of any particular significance of this; but the word occured quite frequently.
For example, , came to mind just now. And there are others.
The great 20-century historian, philosopher and writer Hu Shih ­J ¾A adopted as his "alternate first name" as,
¾A¤§
Some of my personal friends also has this word in their names.
As you know, Chinese "first name" is made up from words chosen from the dictionary. (There are no Robert, John, etc) A common practice of thinking up a name is to use nice words like: Beauty, Great, Longevity, etc.
To get away from these, people then choose words with more literary or abstract meanings. Often by literati.

Ming

FROM:Ming L Pei <pei@chinapage.org>
- Tuesday, November 30, 1999 at 08:22:00 (PS


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