Further to P. Leung's enquery on Zheng He's possible excursion to Australia (18.3.99) and the subsequent comments by S.L. Lee (19.3.99) and your goodself (21.3.99),

may I add that this has been a much debated subject in the past.

An Australian author,Eric Rolls, wrote in 1991 (Sojourners, the epic story of China's centuries old relationship with Australia, published by University of Queensland Press) that a carved stone (not a wooden statuette) was found by an Australian public works officer in 1879 in Darwin in the roots of an old banyan tree. Subsequent examination by a Liu WeiPing of the University of Sydney revealed that it was an ordinary stone and not a jade, and a commonly purchased stone statue that was not compatible with the dignity of Zheng He. To quote Rolls, the 165 cm tall stone was "a carving of the God of Longevity, the Venerable ImmortalStar, Lao Shou Xing, seated on an Axis Deer (a plum blossom spotted deer), holding a peach, a symbol of long life, in his hand."

Rolls also mentioned that a Prof. Wei Chu-Hsien who published "The Chinese Discovery of Australia" in Hong Kong in 1960 and a Lau Yuen Ting, a Chinese consul in Australia, and contributor to the magazine "Eastern Miscellany" in 1931, believed that the Chinese "discovered" Australia before the Europeans.

Other supporting features though historically weak, were the Chinese utensils found in Timor and Papua New Guinea, the "Baijinis" (?Chinese or Indonesians, who might be looking for sea cucumbers, considered a Chinese delicacy) and the description of a kangaroo like animal ?kangaroo ?jerboa, in Hebei, Shansi and Manchuria. Prof. Wang GungWu of University of Malaya, Australian National University and later University of HongKong and contributor to Lynn Pang's Encyclopedia of the Overseas Chinese, apparently told Rolls that Prof. Wei as relied on old books considered as traveller's tales.

Even the objective(s) of Zheng He's voyages has/have been under debate. He apparently was entrusted by Emperor Yong Le with the mission to find out the hiding place of the previous young emperor, who was the nephew and rightful heir before being usurped by Yong Le. Other reasons postulated were a) to show the less enlightened world the finess and cultivated Chinese civilization, b) to foster trade as the Silk Route was cut off by Tamerlane of Samarkand and c) to remove the Chinese pirate traders with their own small potectorates in South-east Asia.

It is acknowledged that Zheng He had a strong impact on the Malacca kingdom off the south west coast of Malaysia, where he sent a number of Chinese maidens as wives to the Malaccan royalty. Some of the descendents of these maidens are still living in Chinese looking terraced houses in old Malacca town and they speak Malay rather than Chinese, but are very traditionally Chinese in house decor and outlook. Th locals called them nonyas (for women) and babas (for men). Zheng He also called Sam Po Kong was elevated to a diety in Malacca with a temple and a well with spiritual water to his good name.

Interestingly, while on holiday to Bangkok last Xmas, I stumble on a book called "Ying-yai Sheng-lan: The Overall Survey of the Ocean's Shores" by Ma Huan, who was the Muslim interpreter for Zheng He. It was translated from the Chinese text by J.V.G. Mills, ex-Puisne Judge of the Malayan Straits Settlement of British Malaya, published initially by Hakyult Society in 1970 and reprinted by White Lotus Co. Ltd., GPO Box 1141, Bangkok 10501, Internet ande@loxinfo.co.th in 1997. Ma Huan certainly did not mention Australia, but Mills in his introduction said "In 1943, it was reported that a few years previously an ancient map of northern Australia, compiled by a captain of a Chinese beche-de-mer boat in 1426 had been found in Peking, but recent enquiries have failed to disclose the present whereabouts of the map". I do hope the Hakluyt Society is still around because they have scholars with an in-depth knowledge of Asia and her languages. Mills foot-note also mentioned that C.P. Fitzgerald, who wrote The Southern Expansion of the Chinese People, Empress Wu and China: A Short Cultural History, had contributed an article called "A Chinese Discovery of Australia?" to Australia Writes (1953) edited by T. Ingliss Moore, pp 76-8. Fitzgerald's Southern Expansion of the Chinese People is now available from Lotus. My Thai friends tell me that 75% of Thais have Chinese blood. No wonder the Chinese influence is still present there.

Prof, you have mentioned another exciting book called "When China Ruled the Seas" by Loiuse Levanthes who did some reasearch in China. I read it two years ago and was fascinated by the junks, which look ugly but are very stable with the first ever invented rudder astern. Zheng He's junks were about two times bigger than Columbus' ships. The more I read about the ancient Chinese, the more I find them inscrutable, even though I am of Chinese descent. They also were strangely far ahead of the West in steel making and in designing harnesses for horses and cattle, axles for carriages, not to mention printing, paper money, compass, gun-powder.

Warmest regards

From the Table of Contents of Homepage, go to "Maps" and "View from Space" for answers.

Or click here for a satellite photo view of the earth taken directly above China.

You have constructed such a nice way for the poems and translations. One thing that could be confusing though is the convention for Chinese poem in the way you layed it out vertically, the second sentence should be under the first, the third one starting from the top of a new line on the left, etc. Since the original poem has four stanzas, may be the translation should go with that too. So the sentences should be arrnaged like this:

7 5 3 1
8 6 4 2

(2) On the way to this page, you are presented with 3 choices: (a) read discussions, (b) write a new discussion, and (b) search by keywords. Use the "back" button!

If you search using the keywords "mandate heaven china", you will be directed to the discussions which occurred during December 1998. Scroll down to reach the rather detailed explanations about these.

Dear Siu-Leung, I've now put your translation to my Eminescu site - won't you have a look?
I think it's rather interesting trying to convey the Romanian poet's famous poem to (modern as well as ancient) Chinese, since its poetic topic really seems like being inspired by the Chinese classics.

Alfred

http://www.fa-kuan.muc.de
Traces of Butterflies' Dreams - ½º¹Ú²ª
My Poetry

Dear Siu-Leung, thanx for your second posting of Eminescu's translation, it's very beautiful (and readable now). I'm just missing the fifth character in line 3 (the one after ªL), what has happened to it? Or did you want me to try a guess for it?? ;)

Ming, your parents chose those beautiful two characters for your personal name, my parents didn't! So, although Às is not necessary for the transcription, I just wanted to take it (besides, also referring to my age). BTW, I do not like those silly and meaningless transliterations often used for western names, mine too. Characters like Às¡B©ú or even ¸q brought me to study Chinese because of their attracting beauty. For me, the fascinating point of attraction always has been the visual aspect, not the sound (but Às and ©ú have a pleasant sound too).

Alfred

http://www.fa-kuan.muc.de
Traces of Butterflies' Dreams - ½º¹Ú²ª
My Poetry

Thank you for your comments. Although I agree with you about the difficulty of using "correct" pronounciations for reciting poems, I rather think you are perhaps too harsh in condemning the use of Mandarin for classic poems.

Only a minority of Chinese can speak the Southern dialects. Surely you would not insist that they learn Cantonese as a pre-requisite for classic poetry! If they recite with a full voice, and it does not sound as good as you can, have a little pity. At least they get to appreciate the thought of great poets who lived a thousand years ago.

I have not forgotten about the idea, but have been thinking of a possible format to make it work.

(1) I think the chat room is not a suitable format. It is hard to ask people to set aside two hours on a particular day just to chat. And there is no real need to be talking at the same time.

(2) If the topic forum is for a longer duration, say one week (or whatever), then every one can read and contribute at his/her convenience. It will also give people more time to write follow-ups and rebuttals.

(3) Let's have a moderator, host, or leader for the duration of a topic forum. The forum will open with an essay or introduction by this moderator. He will start with this paper, which will "provoke" discussions and arguments. It will be informative, so that more people will be attracted to come to read and participate.

(4) The moderator will start the discussion. But the rest of us do not have to address the moderator only. It can be an open free-for-all meeting - as long as we do not stray too far from the designated topic.

(5) We will set a Starting Date far in advance. Advertise as much as possible, so that more of the "silent readers" of the web site will know about it, and hopefully come in to take a look. I really would like to have many people and not just the 4 or 5 persons talking, or it will be so interesting.

(6) This will not replace the regular Discussion Board, but will be separate from it. During this period, the Discussion Board will function as usual.
I think I can do this with a separate forum. The messages will not be sorted by date, as in the regular Discussion Board, but as follow-ups.

(7) The format is more like a lecture/town-hall meeting. Most important to have a moderator with a prepared speech. Second, announce in advance so more people will know about it.

(8) It won't be a weekly affair. Only when we are ready so it will be an "important" affair.
It will be a "limited engagement." This is to force people to come in right away. And the discussions will be lively. Not quite like a chat room, but ...

What do you think?

Dear Ming, I wonder you didn't discover this the last years ;) as there is indeed 'a story behind the seal' - just move the pointer on it and click! (... and be patient with the page build-up). It was done in Peking ¥_¨Ê summer palace. BTW, the square shaped one in 'lesser seal' style was cut by myself in a nice piece of 'oxen blood' stone I brought from Xi'an ¦è¦w in 1989.

Alfred

http://www.fa-kuan.muc.de
Traces of Butterflies' Dreams - ½º¹Ú²ª
My Poetry

Is there a story behind your seal which appears on your Homepage? Did you acquire it during one of your trips to China? What are the four words in the seal? Are the words arranged in the counter-clockwise order?

Dear Siu-Leung, you did a great job with Mihai Eminescu's 'Somnorase Pasarele' transferring the famous poem to ancient Chinese poetry style (¤­µ´). And you obviously did it in no time!! It surely will take me a couple of hours to entirely check your work ;(( With your permission I will then add it to my Eminescu pages together with the modern style poem done by Ge Baoquan. Thank you a lot.

BTW, your were right, the character I could not read distinctly infact was º@ (yuan4).

Alfred

http://www.fa-kuan.muc.de
Traces of Butterflies' Dreams - ½º¹Ú²ª
My Poetry

Zheng He's expeditions were all larger official undertaking which were well documented in the official chronicles. As S.L. pointed out, there was no report of his going to Australia. Possibly because the Chinese knew about Australia already.

There is an interesting book about Zheng He by Louise Levathes called When China Ruled the Seas. Paperback is available. There is one chapter in the book dealing with this question. I will quote some passages here.

Aboriginal songs of northern Arnhem Land in Australia record the arrival before the Indonesians and Europeans of a people called "Baijini," who have linked to the Chinese. They came in sailing ships. .... Anchors found along the coast have been attributed to Baijini. They have one or two arms at sharp angles to the main shaft, a characteristic of Chinese adze anchors dating from the late Han dynasty.

In 1879 a statuette of the Daoist god Shou Lao, the spirit of longevity, was dscovered in the roots of a two-hundred- year-old banyan tree near Darwin (Northern port in Australia) during the bulilding of a road. The Chinese often carved niches in banyans and used them as small shrines.

I am listing a number of potential topics:
1. Chinese Religion and concept of the universe (could be too controversial?)
2. Chinese concept about fine arts - abstractism or realism?
3. Chinese music - is it out of date?
4. Chinese science andtechnology - What happened to the leadership of Chinese science prior 1700?
5. Chinese language - Is Romanization (Americanization and computerization) putting the Chinese language to the point of extinction?

By chance, searching for a sinological text by Prof. Debon on ancient Chinese poetry, I discovered an academic publisher in Leyden/Netherlands with very interesting publications on Far Eastern cultures, languages, religions etc.. 'Brill' e.g. now announces three new journals ¨k¤k "Nan nu - Men, Women and Gender in Early and Imperial China", "Studies in Central & East-Asian Religions" and "Journal of East Asian Archaeology".
Just to mention a few of the many interesting books titles (with regard to the interests of some readers of this board):

• The Chinese Sky during the Han, Constellating Stars and Society
• Chinese Maritime History
• The Jewish Bishop and the Chinese Bible, S.I.J. Schereschewsky (1831-1906) translated the Old Testament from Hebrew into northern vernacular Chinese
• Dreaming the Southern Song Landscape, the Power of Illusion in Chinese Painting
• Education in Traditional China
  

etc. etc.

For further information have a look on the publisher's website WWW.BRILL.NL

Alfred

http://www.fa-kuan.muc.de
Traces of Butterflies' Dreams - ½º¹Ú²ª
My Poetry

Dear friends, these are two versions of Li Bai's famous poem discussed here (the rhyme scheme 'kuang/shuang/yueh/hsiang' could not be obtained, though).

Alfred

http://www.fa-kuan.muc.de
Traces of Butterflies' Dreams - ½º¹Ú²ª
My Poetry

The poem you had in mind (as Julius said) is likely the famous poem on "Thinking Under the Moonlight" by the most famous poet Li Bai.

I have a page devoted to this poem written especially for introducing poetry to the youngsters, at
www.chinapage.org/libai014.html

Take a look and enjoy

The major feature of this version is its support for the Chinese (and other) language.

This is real and full support, far far better than every thing else. Chinese will no longer by something to be added on. It is supported by the system, just like the older Chinese version of Windows, except better.

I recommend that you obtain a copy and give it a try.

Rex Warner and Siu-Leung, I just want you to know that a collegue of mine here on Munich Court is a well known sailor who wrote a whole bunch of books on navigation etc.. His name is Bobby Schenk: he sailed around the world together with his wife and, on a second trip, mastered the route from South Pacific around Cape Hoorn to Argentina and back to Europe in the fall. Some years later he took a trip from North Africa to a certain small island of Central America without modern instruments of navigation as compass, watch or any kind of clock - and really succeeded. I think he could provide quite some useful informations, connections etc. for this very interesting trip planned by Rex. I'm sure you can find his books, address etc. on the net. If not and you're interested, I'd personally address him for you.

Alfred

http://www.fa-kuan.muc.de
Traces of Butterflies' Dreams - ½º¹Ú²ª
My Poetry

I did a search and found the book in Amazon.com and some comments:
"From Booklist , October 15, 1995 Severin has undertaken previous adventures inspired by historical journeys of significance. His latest expedition was motivated in part by the findings of experts who believed it possible that a Chinese explorer crossed from Asia to America perhaps 2,000 years ago on a bamboo raft. In what Severin considered to be an archeological experiment, a replica raft was built in Vietnam and christened Hsu Fu, after the revered mariner. Severin and his crew of four then set sail from Hong Kong to Tokyo before embarking on a crossing of the North Pacific. This rousing account of the journey is vividly detailed, never dreary. Nearly 1,000 miles off the Mendocino coast, these persistent sailors finally had to abandon the ancient seafaring craft that up to that point had served them so well. Alice Joyce "

It is interesting that they named the raft Hsu Fu (Xu Fu), to commemorate the Daoist who was commissioned by Qinshihuangdi to find elixir in the East (circa 220 BC). Xu Fu was suspected to be the first emperor of Japan bringing Chinese culture to Japan. I have mentioned this in my Hakka Chinese homepage and in this forum.

You are performing a great service with your Lao She site.
Will you consider adding original Chinese text of his works in your site?
If not, perhaps I can provide some of it here, as an adjunct to your effort.

Ming, the Li-style font I used is part of a set additional to Macintosh Chinese Language Kit (CLK) and called "Tai Da Li Shu Chang Yong Zi".

Does somebody among the readers of this board can tell me where to get a good-looking Macintosh font in Hsing and/or Ts'ao shu style?

Alfred

http://www.fa-kuan.muc.de
Traces of Butterflies' Dreams - ½º¹Ú²ª
My Poetry

Ming, I appreciate the poetry of emperor T'ai-Tsung and his elegant and refined handwriting, quite appropriate for this poem's subject. (The 'skinny' brush strokes reminding somehow of fragile birds' bones or even feelers of butterflies.)

ª ªÚ ¨Ì »A ¸°
·Ø Äê ¤@ ®x ¤¤
¹s ÅS ÀL ¦p ¾K
´Ý Áø ·Ó ¦ü ¿Ä
¤¦ «C Ãø ¤U µ§
³y ¤Æ ¿W ¯d ¥\
»R ½º °g ­» ®|
½¡ ½¡ ³v ±ß ­·

§ºÀ²©v

Siu-Leung is right, from its (visual) perception, Chinese writing is quite different from Western writing systems: even with my rather poor knowledge of Chinese characters, I'm getting lots of 'pictures', 'colours', 'fragrances' and 'sounds' with one glance on the poem's writing. (... tan ch'ing nan hsia pi ...). Maybe this beautiful piece of poetry should/should not(?) be translated ...

Alfred

http://www.fa-kuan.muc.de
Traces of Butterflies' Dreams - ½º¹Ú²ª
My Poetry

What is the name of the Chinese font you used? It is not part of the graphic software, and looked very nice.

I know you are a butterfly lover.
Have you seen this month's Picture of the Month, featuring the famous calligraphy by Emperor Hui-tsung?

He wrote about the butterfly.

Dear Julian, yes, you need a 'special' graphic software to create Chinese character grapics (gif, jpeg etc.). I'm using Photoshop and Firework (really professional tools), but any other * two-byte savvy* graphic program might do as well.

Dear Siu-Leung, thank you for the URLs of the German sinology sites: They are doing a great and useful job there with their MCST-Project gathering and researching Western scientific (philosophical, technical etc.) translations to Chinese, beginning with the 19th century.

Alfred

http://www.fa-kuan.muc.de
Traces of Butterflies' Dreams - ½º¹Ú²ª
My Poetry

My path is the right path can be translated as §^ ¹D ¥¿ ¹D There is no need to translate the verb "is".

Michael, I made up a graphic with the 3 (single) characters and sent them to your e-mail address posted by you, yet the mail was returned to sender by the postmaster.

So, I try to publish the graphic here for a while so you can pick it up frofm the board:

Alfred

http://www.fa-kuan.muc.de
Traces of Butterflies' Dreams - ½º¹Ú²ª
My Poetry

From your email, looks like you want only one Chinese word for each of the above. I suggest the following :

Mind = ·N

Body = Åé

Your seal carving service page is wonderful. I am very impressed. Immediately I sent you an email with a request already. I strongly recommend this website to those readers who are interested to have their names transcribed as virtual seal carving. I think we better hurry up before Gavin is flooded with requests.

I remember reading a book in a bookstore called ¤¤ °ê ¦a ¦W ¤j Ãã ¨å . May be you can go to a library or bookstore to find similar books and see if you can find ¤Ó ¦w .

Rudy is correct though when he said he needed more information on the name of Tai On. Is it a city, a town, a village or a county ? In which province etc ? China, being such a big country, may have more than one place called Tai On.

Once you have narrowed down the place to a province, one way you can find out more about this place is to write to the Travel Bureau of that province. Hopefully they can give you more information.

Don't be so lazy! Spend a little time to read, browse, and research the net for what you need.
There are more than what you need right here at this website. Look under "Dictionary" and "Language" sections. Don't just stop at the homepage. At least go to the "table of contents".

"Hey you gal" ;) , just want you to know that there is no Chinese alphabet similar to our Latin one: what you're calling 'alphabet' are thousands by thousands of different Chinese characters each one representing a whole syllable/word. So you would have to learn lots of stuff for your project.
If you'd like to experience a couple of those Chinese 'picture' characters, please visit my "Quileute School Project" to get an idea of how they look like, the way they're written and what's their sound in Mandarin.

Have fun!

Alfred

http://www.fa-kuan.muc.de
Traces of Butterflies' Dreams - ½º¹Ú²ª
My Poetry